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GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Disambiguation

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"If there are any longstanding GuildWiki traditions/procedures that remain undocumented, please write up an article and link it appropriately." (-- GuildWiki:Policy) Well, this is certainly a longstanding procedure, so I've written it up. I'm proposing it as a S&F guideline, not as policy, but we don't have a {{proposed guideline}} template. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

add notes about avoiding linking to disabig pages when possible. (if talking about pvp go to the pvp skill page. if talking abuot cratfing materials go to tanned hide square not hide (skill)). Also, what about disambigs for abbreviations? Um... Depending on setting, SF will mean either Searing Flames or Shadow Form. SoC is usually Song of Conc but we use it for Sig of Capture which is usually called cap sig... SoR is Shield of Regen or Song of Resto and theres a good chance sig of removal will come into play. But some things are weird. We have AR pointing to Armor rating and its usually used for Aggressive Refrain. I would change the redirect to point to aggressive but would that cause confusion? And things like SS change over time (in ha it used to be sandstorm, then steady stance, and then spiteful) while in pve its almost always spiteful. Do we have a way of working things that deal with setting and stuff? Can I make it so that if its a skill used in PvP more it goes to the PvP version that the PvE version? (I look stuff up for PvP way more often and I usually use the abbrevs to search). —JediRogue 19:57, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Redirects are good in cases where there is no ambiguity about what the abbreviation will mean, like OoP or THK. In cases where there is ambiguity, though, it seems like we usually have a disambig page. AR the redirect was created long before there was an Aggressive Refrain, but because we do have AR the skill now, it should be changed to a disambig. Seems to me like it would be good practice to always use a disambig if there's more than one meaning to an abbreviation. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:52, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Complete restructuring[edit source]

I wrote a [GuildWiki:Disambiguation/draft2|version that is completely restructured and reworded] [moved to main article --Dr Ishmael], but ought to cover much the same ground as this one. I wanted to make it more simple to read and understand, and worded it more like a S&F guide and less like a policy. The preceding unsigned comment was added by m.mendel (contribs) 09:17, 30 July 2008.

Heh, much better than mine. The only complaint I have is that there's too many boxes and stuff and not enough explanation. I can take care of that, though. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Hope I didn't take it too far down the road back to a policy, but there was a bit of information that I felt needed to be added back in. Feel free to re-refine it to make it more "S&F"-ish again. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, I'd been waiting for a reaction from you. I like your additions, but I felt that introducing the "primary topic" term just for that is a bit much at the start of the article, so I rephrased that a bit. I set off the list of common qualifiers again; if you want it to be an equal part (at equal size) of that section, it needs to be considerably shortened; or it could be in an appendix (i.e. in its own section at the end of the page) - it's just not important when you first read the guideline, and the layout should reflect that. The two policy-like prescriptions have been set off with red boxes to underline that these are really important and we're going to enforce these. I broadened the second one a bit to cover not just primary articles, because any kind of qualified article ought to have (and usually already has) a disambiguation if it has "sister articles". Maybe we ought to allow glossary on disambig pages? Glossary is often just a paragraph or two, and if you put it at the bottom of the dismbig, it wouldn't need its own page. Thoughts? The preceding unsigned comment was added by m.mendel (contribs) 18:42, 31 July 2008.
You forgot to sign again, mendel. :P Anyway, I like most of your edits. I still don't like having the Tihark Orchard redirect as part of that one example, though - I don't think it fits there. Simply mentioning a redirect may be enough to confuse some people, too.
I've got an idea on what to do with the "common qualifiers", give me a moment and I'll put it in. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Argh - why is that about the signing on this page? I think the first time I wanted to sign above the long list and forgot, but now? Why did you shorten the list when you made a new section for it? I think it'd be good if the list was lengthened (have I mentioned I like the category descriptions you came up with?) to include all the qualifiers we use (or in some cases, all types - we don't need to list all location names), and then clean up the "non-standard" qualifiers still on the list below. (I think the present list may be bugged, though - I suspect I've matched non-mainspace articles as well). --◄mendel► 07:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Suffixes in current use in Mainspace[edit source]

94: Nightfall 85: Factions 80: mission 75: location 71: Prophecies 44: Core 36: Eye of the North 35: PvP 26: unique 17: effect 15: explorable 14: Luxon 14: temporary 13: Kurzick 13: quest 12: Boss 12: NPC 11: Location 11: Mission 11: species 10: monster 10: Quest 10: Species 10: Warrior 9: Attack 9: Pre-Searing 9: Ranger 8: Elementalist 8: Item 8: unique item 7: Mesmer 7: Necromancer 6: art 6: Ascalon 6: Monster 5: Crystal Desert 5: Merchant 5: Monk 5: Unique Item 5: weapon 5: Wintersday 2006

4 each

2006 2007 2008 Canthan New Year Dervish Dungeon Explorable focus Kryta Salvage Item Shing Jea Island Skill Wintersday Wintersday 2005

3 each

action arena Bonus Mission Pack building Canthan New Year 2007 Charr Homelands Disguise Focus Istan Jade Sea Kaineng City Post-Searing Practice Ally Practice Target Ritualist Shiverpeaks skill type Unique Unique item

2 each

15k Arena Assassin Axe blessing Collector collector Depths of Tyria Far Shiverpeaks Focus Item hex Maguuma Jungle Mission 2 mission 2 Monster Skill not perfect Paragon pet ranger region Ring of Fire Islands Smiting Prayers enhancing Smiting Prayers requiring snow fighting skill Southern Shiverpeaks Staff Tournament Map Tyrian UW Wand wand Warrior Boss Wintersday 2007

1 each

Action alliance Alliance Battle ambient Ambient Animal Ascalon Pre-Searing axe Balthazar boss Brawling Building bundle by Type campaigns Cape Champion's Dawn Chantry of Secrets Collectable Drop condition Continent continent Costume Brawl course Destroyer of Hordes disambiguation Discount Djinn Done Dirt Cheap Dragon design Dragon Festival Dragon Festival 2006 Dragon Festival 2007 Dragon Festival 2008 Ebony Citadel Echovald Forest Elementalist Boss Elonian Entity entity environmental feature event Expert Ranger Explorable Area Foreign Quarter Fort Aspenwood G.O.L.E.M. Gate of Pain Gates of Kryta Ghost Reconnaissance golem Gray Great House Grey Guild guild guild hall GWEN Haiju Lagoon Hall of Heroes Hammer hammer Insect item Kourna Kurzick quest Labyrinth level 1 level 10 level 20 level 23 level 6 Lightbringer Local Quarter Luxon quest male Material Trader Mesmer Boss minion Missions missions Monk Boss monster skill moster Necromancer Boss nightfall Northern Shiverpeaks Order outpost Outpost Party party POI Post-searing Pre Searing pre-order item Pre-searing professions PvE PvP reward rating Ravenheart Gloom Realm of Torment Recruit Training red Remains of Sahlahja Remains of Sahlahja Mission ritualist scrimmage services Services shield Ship Shiverpeak Site skill Skill type Skip Tutorial Slang Smothering Tendrils Sorrow's Furnace Spell staff strategy Sunspear sword tabular form Tarnished Coast terminology The Desolation The Kodash Bazaar title Title Tomb of the Primeval Kings town Trader Turai Ossa Tutorial unit Vabbi warrior Warrior boss Weapon weaponsmith white Wind and Water World world Zhu Hanuku

The table is without attribute qualifiers used for the Weapon quick references (these should really be subpages). --◄mendel► 19:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

listing[edit source]

i suggest listing the most probable meaning first rather than alphabetizing. also it would be helpful maybe to say what settings will be certain things (SF in HA is usually Searing Flames and in ToA its gonna be Shadow Form) —JediRogue 20:59, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I also like listing skills with the skill icon. —JediRogue 21:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed on both points. Don't really care about the skill icons, but they could be helpful → When looking up a skill and you think to know the profession in question (such as SF when talking about an Ele) you'll see the skill color, and thus find what you need faster. --- Ohaider!-- (s)talkpage 21:24, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
Tell me what you think of CC or AP. Most disambigs are short enough, only 2 or 3 links, that it seems inefficient to split up the list like that, so I'm trying to include the context in the link's description. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and about ordering: if I knew that one meaning was the most common one, I would say so, and then say "it can also refer to:" and then alphabetize the rest - for an example, see AoE. The problem is that I'm not terribly familiar with the community's current usage of most of these terms, so I alphabetized the list. Feel free to correct my ordering. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
On CC: Consume Corpse is more often used in PvE. --- Ohaider!-- (s)talkpage 03:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Well fix it then. :P —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I really like the way FS looks. Do them all like that!—JediRogue 05:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Also, CC is usually called consume when its used in PvP (don't see it used much atm tho) but in PvP, CCs as candy canes comes up more around wintersday but if i see or hear CC in pve i think candy cane. —JediRogue 05:19, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Let's see, doing it that way for AP yields:

The abbreviation AP can refer to:

Game mechanics:

Skills:

Hm, I thought it would look more cluttered, but it actually looks pretty good. I can go back through and fix up the ones I've already done (A-G) tomorrow.
About CC, like I've said, I'm not exactly "in tune" with the community - especially the PvP side - on these things, so I won't mind at all if you fix or add anything I might be ignorant about. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 05:28, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
I always try to look through the cats and add pvp stuff. —JediRogue 05:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
That's why it's a wiki --Gimmethegepgun 06:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Profession icon/name in skill listing[edit source]

Jedi, I noticed on AoF you left the profession name out and only had the icon. It does seem a little redundant to have both, now that I think about it, but it also looks a little odd to only have the icon. What does anyone else think? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:19, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I didn't realize I left it out. It looks better with the name. —JediRogue 18:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Great Work![edit source]

I just want to say great work boys! You contributions are greatly appreciated and... YOU HAVE PLEASED BEERCRAT!—JediRogue 17:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Yay! Happy Beercrat >>> Angry Beercrat. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
It is very rewarding to work with Dr Ishmael, because he usually gets what I'm after, corrects my errors, and takes the whole thing a step further. I enjoy that very much. --◄mendel► 23:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
Wow, thank you very much, Mendel. It's fun working with you as well, even if you do annoy me every so often (but that happens with anyone I work with, I'm not the greatest team player >.>). I'm working on getting my wiki-code skills up to your level - I learn a lot just by watching you. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 05:40, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
So do that mean this proposal is accepted, or do we need to call for a more general RFC? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Since there isn't a single opposing comment, so far the guideline seems to be community consensus. Since it's not really a policy, I believe we need nothing formal. I suggest linking it in S&F now and leaving it on the proposed policies page for a week or two in case somebody else wants to comment (i.e. for process reasons). --◄mendel► 05:39, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Skill name anomalies[edit source]

The Wolfen/Ursan/Raven skills have (temporary) versions. Other skills that have temprorary versions, but another suffix, are:

These should all be changed to (temporary).

All of the spirit skills have (attack) as suffix, and that is unfortunate, because (spirit skill) would have been better, but it probably doesn't warrent changing them, until the day we need an (attack) that isn't a spirit skill - or when Attack gets changed from uppercase.

We have some monster skills with a variety of suffixes, they should all have (monster skill).

Quite a few of the skills listed above lack proper disambig messages; and so do the following three. (The (Zhu Hanaku) suffix is unfortunate, but I have no better suggestion.)

--◄mendel► 09:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I can change all of those whenever I get back around to taking care of ULC issues. The two Resurrect monster skills should be identified by campaign, since one is used only by Resurrect Gargoyles in Prophecies (Resurrect (Prophecies monster skill)), and the other is used by two different monsters in Factions (Resurrect (Factions monster skill)). Add them to this list so I don't forget about them. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:53, 12 September 2008 (UTC)