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GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Images

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Ok, let's talk about image presentation. I think we need to develop a standard for how images are presented on the site. By this, I mean we answer th basic questions:

For each major type of images (i.e. maps, creatures, items, screenshots), what is the standard?

  • Thumbnailed or not?
  • Standard dimensions in an article? (e.g. maps should be 200 pixels wide, characters should be 200 pixels long.)
  • Size of file?
  • Image format? PNG/JPG/GIF/Other?
  • Best practices? (example, for maps: It's best to also fully capture the name of the nearest outpost. For characters: the character should occupy 80% of the height of the screen so that its image is clear and crisp).

--Karlos 05:46, 15 Aug 2005 (EST)

Restarting[edit source]

It looks like we all forgot about this. I'm bringing up the discussion primarily so that we can settle the issue of brightness and contrast-adjusted screenshots. -- Gordon Ecker 02:55, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

In many situations I feel an adjustment to the levels is well-suited. As far as images go, there are some articles that relate exactly to missions and in-game scenarios, such as quest pages and mission pages, and then other articles that are more just generalities, dealing a lot more with lore. In the former, it is perfectly understandable why an image should be preserved with its exact lighting conditions such as when one would need to identify something in-game in its area, IE a trader, collector, etc. For things related much more to storyline and lore, however, these restrictions shouldn't apply. The idea with those pages such as those is to gather as much known information as possible. They're not used for identifying out in a specific area with a certain lighting condition, they're used for general learning and knowledge-building.
Where is a spot in-game with good sunlight color? The desert seems too yellow and the Shiverpeaks are too blue. I'd like to help with some images, but I don't want to upload crappy ones. -Valkor the Confused 03:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
As with Image:Abaddon.jpg, his "in-game appearance" is irrelevant. If it the screenshot was located on its mission page, then it'd be fine to show it in the lighting for that mission because people would better identify it. It's not though. The lightened image is able to show much more detail than in the darkened image, something much more advantageous to those who are there for the lore aspect. Just my opinion anyways. =3 --Talonz 19:06, 21 June 2007 (CDT)

GuildWiki Standardimages[edit source]

Honestly, I'm missing an easy-to-find link to the images Guild Wiki already offers. Like the skills and profession icons. Once I found a page that had an overview of all those (large and small) with filenames but now I can't find it again *cry*. --Birchwooda Treehug 10:56, 9 July 2007 (CDT)

Special:ImagelistJediRogue 16:09, 9 July 2007 (CDT)
Nah, not that. That shows a lot of useless things and no proper overview at all. --Birchwooda Treehug 14:19, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
I dunno about the skill icons, but perhaps you are looking for this - Category:Templates/Profession icons? Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 14:22, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
Yes, that looks good. But why is it so oversized? and is there such a thing for skill icons too? Like you can have large icons and small ones. --Birchwooda Treehug 17:46, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
Because the thumbnails in image categories are displayed at a fixed size. Large images are shrunk and small images are stretched. -- Gordon Ecker 18:04, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

resolution[edit source]

1280x1024 is actually a bad resolution because on a 4:3 monitor it doesn't have square pixels. 1280x960 is a resolution with square pixels, screenshots taken at that resolution will show up square at most other common resolutions. 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1280x960, and 1600x1200 are all good for 4:3 monitors, and the "square pixel" setting for your widescreen monitor depends on whether it's a 16:10 or 16:9 model. --◄mendel► 03:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

That's true for CRTs, but many non-widescreen LCD monitors, including mine, actually have a 5:4 ratio, reversing the square/rectangular consideration. 1280x1024 is the most common "native" resolution for these monitors, which produces square pixels, whereas 1280x960 or any of the others in your list would have "wide" rectangular pixels. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
That follows from "are all good for 4:3 monitors". What remains to be tested is that an object in the game, screenshot at that resolution, has the same proportion as an object on a 4:3 monitor with 4:3 resolution. I suspect the software can always screw it up by overcompensating. --◄mendel► 04:36, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Bugger, one more thing for me to look into... Especially as I tweak driver settings somewhat significantly for my screenshots. If I follow, this is discussing the shape of the individual pixels, and it occurs that the pixel shape may be a factor for me to consider. That I can think, the test would be to use an object of uniform shape, get it as large as possible, take a screenshot on different monitors/resolutions, and count the pixles to find out what is going on. The radar comes to minds as a reasonable object to use for any direct measurments, although skill icons might be another item. Yamagawa 21:59, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
The sun would be good, too; it ought to be a circle, and it is an in-game object. --◄mendel► 23:35, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Oddly enough, the sun isn't round. Look at it and rotate to see for yourself.
Here are some measurements I've taken. As the sun has such nice crisp edges.... who am I kidding, measurements I did using the sun should be taken with several pints of salt.
Notes on them follow the tables.
Object Resolution table:
Resolution Radar Sun, 0 rotation Sun, 45 rotation Festival Hats Peep
Screenshot Rez 812x814 133x134/109x113 155x162/130x135 296x929
Full-screen 1680x1050 704x703 140x141/111x114 161x157/128x129 306x961
Standard Full-Screen Rez (1024x768) 536x535 78x72/58x57 93x87/69x70 197x621
Proportions table:
Resolution Radar Sun, 0 rotation Sun, 45 rotation Festival Hats Peep
Screenshot Rez 1:1.002463 1:1.007519/1:1.036697 1:1.045161/1:1.038462 1:3.138513
Full-screen 1680x1050 1:0.998580 1:1.007143/1:1.027027 1:0.975155/1:1.007813 1:3.140523
Standard Full-Screen Rez (1024x768) 1:0.998134 1:0.923077/1:0.982759 1:0.935484/1:014493 1:3.142284
About the elements:
  • Radar: This is taken using the inner most circle on the radar (the actual terrain map) with the map rotated by 45 degrees by facing northeast. This element is rendered as kind of an 'over-lay', and not part of the 3d graphics engine.
  • Sun, 0 degrees: This is taken by looking at the sun and rotating so that the sun is centered as low as possible on the screen. As the sun does not have crisp edges, 2 measurements were taken using different 'boundaries' on the object. This object is rendered as a 'If no 3d objects get in the way' element. Measurements on this object are considered to have significant error included.
  • Sun, 45 degrees: This is taken by rotating clockwise so the sun is at edge of the screen to the left, placing it at a rougly 45 degree angle to the first sun screenshot. This object is rendered as a 'If no 3d objects get in the way' element. Measurements on this object are considered to have significant error included.
  • Festival Hats Peep: This is a screenshot of the festival hats fellow in my guildhall. All screenshots of him were taken by first positioning, then adjusting the resolution without moving or adjusting the camera in any way. Thus, his proportions should be the same. This object is rendered via the 3d graphics engine.
Conclusion: For most screenshots, it's the 3d graphics rendering that's going to matter (and can easily be graphics driver dependent).
Using the standard 1024x768 resolution as a baseline, and the measures from the Festival Hats Peep, I find:
  • Standard Res: 100% (baseline)
  • Full Screen (wide screen): 99.944% match
  • Screenshot Res: 99.880% match
Which is in my margin of error. If I were looking at a problem with pixel shape changing, from the 4:3 pixel aspect ratio of 12:11 to the widescreen pixel aspect of 10:11, I'd see numbers closer to... (11/10)/(11/12) = 1.200 -> 120%
So, any way I am looking at this, the pixels used in the game (whether for rendered 3d objects, overlays, or backgrounds) are square. (And the sun is decidedly not round) But as video drivers can affect the 3d rendering, this may not be the same for everyone. Yamagawa 18:57, 5 April 2009 (UTC)