Talk: Alliance Battle

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the shocking state of AB

( -> moved from archive) I and many others who maintain faction for our FF guilds are quite sick and tired of the pathetic mess that is ab - seeing that these days u win 1 out of 10 matches and usually the other luxons are quite rubbish. Ab is about capping the shrines and holding off the opposition but most nubs that enter ab just seem to think it is a kill fest. I have even taken note of some builds that people have been running and i am quite appaled at what they are. These are builds that would get u laughed out of HA and that wouldnt even work for pve (steady stance assassin with no dagger skills anyone??) or are farming builds (130hp derv, 55 monk, A/E green farmer to name a few). Back when ab used to be good my guild was one of the top and AB was clasified the alternative to HA. Now ab is more like a slightly more organised RA. This is to ANET - fix ab or u wont just have older players boycotting ab - u will loose valuble players from the game. With ab the only real PvP alot of people can do (need rank for ha - but need ha for rank... see the prob?) it is realy dishearting that ab is just not worth even participating anymore... O and to the above comment about people who want to win - avoid the mob - u wont hold it most of the time and team formation is important, a monk needs protection while if u have a ranger in the team they can be some nice shutdown interrupt support. If u mob u are just as bad as the kurzicks and should realy not be in ab. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by XisdedOne (contribs) .

"just as bad as the kurzicks". If you take kurz/luxon that seriously, I don't think a-net would really feel the need to listen to you. Lord of all tyria 21:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

And that is suppost to mean what exactly? Im luxon and its true teh kurz mob most of the time... prove to me its not... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.167.108.243 (contribs) .

What's there to fix about AB? It's the players who degenerate the game into an RA-esque PvP/PvE hybrid. -- Scottie_theNerd (argue) 11:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Ranked ab for 1 - and 2 they need a guide on how to ab properly... its people like me that ab for faction who cannot stand it anymore - i dont know what its like on the kurz side but on the lux side its usually enough to swear at people.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.167.108.243 (contribs) .

Do you need to pass the zaishen sets to get access to AB? It could be viable to make an equivalent. I don't mean anything big, take a hero battles map or two and throw in the hench team from the Training Arena. This would not solve the "problem", which is a result of player behaviour, but it wouldn't be hard to do and for people new to AB it may be helpful.

Oh, and I am completely against the idea of introducing any form of ranking in AB, that wouldn't help and would introduce more problems -Ezekiel 12:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

meh i dont care anymore - just thought i would bring up the point... but just one last point - it is ab that keeps the noobs out of HA.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.167.108.243 (contribs) .

AB has never been below HA, unless you skip a few arena's. Yes, the "level" of AB goes down by the month, but it still is even below TA, as it always has been (although TA is, like HA, more and more lamefest). I don't find it shocking to see how AB turned out, I wouldn't have thought anything else. About the "who mobs": It really depends on the people. Some people just run around nilly willy without a team, and follow the nearest ally. Those people mob. And there are more than enough Luxon mobs, especially in Kurzick2 (forgot the name). When people are losing, they stick together to increase survival chances. The fact remains, in AB you suck if you cluster up with more than 6 people (5 is doable). Conclusion: AB is a mobfest on one side of the map, but it really depends on the map as to who is mobbing. --- -- (s)talkpage 14:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

"With ab the only real PvP alot of people can do (need rank for ha - but need ha for rank... see the prob?)" That depends much on how you define 'real'. If by 'real' you mean competetive in that its more about skill than luck, then i would disagree since you only get to choose 3 of your team mates so 2/3s of the work is done by people you are matched with by chance. Besides HA, team arenas and GvG are both 'real' PvP in that you have control over who is in your team so skill is usually the most determining factor in victory. As for needing rank for HA and needing HA for rank, if you start your own team in HA you can decide what rank you require of those joining, without having to be of that rank yourself, therefore rank is not necessary for success in HA.

"just as bad as the kurzicks". If you want to make a serious point for discussion then exhibiting that kind of bias is probably not the best idea. While i have noticed that the average level of skill and teamwork tends to slightly favour the luxons, many players often switch sides as either they change guilds or their guild changes alliance therefore any generalisations about the skill of players belonging to one or the other faction are incorrect and somewhat immature - normally the good players is an alliance battle are not the ones who are shouting '0mg lolz suxonz r No0bs!!11!1' in local chat.

"This is to ANET - fix " You want Anet to fix bad players? I can't wait to see that in the patch notes: "Bad AB players have been upgraded with decent builds and a sense of teamwork" I don't see how you can realisticly blame Anet for lack of skill among players, especially without making any suggestions about how they should go about doing this. --Cobalt | Talk 16:13, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

well i can see u guys have no idea what i am talking about in reality... and i never said i blamed anet for the lack of skill (please use your eyes and read) and u do need a rank to HA as my guild DOESNT GvG or HA and i dont realy have fun in TA, RA etc so i dont classify as real PvP to me —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.167.108.243 (contribs) .

@ Cobalt: lol TA and skill in the same sentence? Gag me with a spoon. Also, @ anon: Please sign your comments with ~~~~ --Gimmethegepgun 17:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Lol, perhaps you have a point there gimme, though if you go with your guild or people you know you can have a fairly organised team in TA *gags with spoon* --Cobalt | Talk 19:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

What I mean is, all you get in there are rapefest builds. And more rapefest builds. And guess what else? MORE rapefest builds. Where exactly is the skill? --Gimmethegepgun 19:45, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the problems that arise from mobs are more along the lines of the kind of lag they can bring about. I gave up on the luxon title because every time I went to go ab, sure enough we were at Ancestral Lands and half of the kurzick time would be mobbing people while the rest of the lux team were too incompetent to cap. For the most part It's usually the 3 factors of: 1)Agonizing lag 2)Uncooperative teamwork 3)Inexperience of some players - (To a lesser extent). One of the most annoying things I've observed is when one team is capping a shrine, and then 3-5 other people run up and 'help'. I don't know how many times I've had to yell at people of doing that, after all for a unguarded shrine +4 blips is all you'll get. I also think a very easy way to kick mobbing in it's tender ass would be to nerf the amount of points you get from a kill if more than 'x' number of allied team members are in the area(or spirit range, whichever floats your bout). I think it would at least give some incentive to have more strategy in ab rather than just mobbing because you have an advantage on the map. :/ --68.111.234.189 00:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

^---Sorry for all of the edits, I forgot too proofread like the noob I am. .__________. --68.111.234.189 00:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

(A bit late): Rather than abuse or swear at the people who don't know how to play, why not help them, rather than being a stuck-up asshole? There are two sides to the coin, with that sort of arrogance covering the otherside. King Neoterikos 23:54, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Map Rotation?

Is there a set limit or win limit on the map rotation... or just random? --Cookie™ ( Talk |Contribs) 18:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Its every three hours I think... is that what you were asking?—♥Jedi♥Rogue♥ 18:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Yer thats what i was asking ty :D... but sumtimes the maps are on for ages or for rly short amouts lol its annoying :D --Cookie™ ( Talk |Contribs) 18:29, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

So that means every day, at the same time the map will change (8x per day) like, 12, 3, 6, 9, 12 etc...? ICYFIFTYFIVE 06:02, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah + Talk 06:08, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Kindoff Asrael 07:50, 23 April 2008 (UTC) what affects the map rotation is it the amount of wins or the amount of faction spend???

AB battles during the factions preview weekend

I'd personally like to see AB be more like how it was during the factions preview weekend, where all 12 players were listed in the player list, and instead of working in teams of 4, you can meet up with other people and make your own teams while playing in the game (like fort aspenwood).205.250.78.245 07:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

From Article

Bug! Sometimes two parties appear on one side and four on the other. When this happens it makes it very hard for the team with the least players to win and only way to get out of it is to leave the map, by resigning (this does not avoid Dishonorable, however), or play on the map and try your best.

Let me guess: Much more likely for Luxon to come in as the two-party state and the Kurzicks to come in as the four-party state. Any real stats on this and on how often this happens? GW-Susan 13:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

This bug is very unlikely to happen, and when happen its 3 teams vs 2 teams. Althought recently it seems true to be happening more times to luxons than kurzs --LaDoncella 21:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Happened to me a few times before however it is always the kurzicks that we are facing that get the 2 parties. Normally they all resign and we win instantly :). 81.158.178.167 20:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Never exprienced this, yet. But i had a 3 minutes win one time (with the 60 second countdown). — TulipVorlax

Sometimes...

twice as many NPC's spawn out at cap points - Ive hit monk & mesmer (but mainly mesmer) points where there were double the usualy amount of NPC's standing there LOL. not exactly a rare bug since its happend to me a few times 82.35.7.62 22:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, sometimes elites don't die, I once had a monk in my party being followed around by 2 elite warriors and 3 elite eles.--ìğá†ħŕášħ 23:03, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Both wrong, it has to do with manipulation of the res orb. 23:04, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

GTFO party pooper.--ìğá†ħŕášħ 23:13, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

What felix said. If a shrine has its NPCs wiped out and is neutralised; then if you come along with a res orb you can raise the dead NPCs (be careful with time and their corpses fading) and recapturing the point spawns a second lot. You see this most often with the monk point, because the orb spawns there. Ezekiel [Talk] 23:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

All chat in AB

The worst in the game ¬_¬ डरन्नठतरपन्न_ṮḀḺḴ 20:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Turn it off? King Neoterikos 12:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Possible bug

I was playing right now at Etnaran Keys and as usual i was caring the orb around.So we lost and i still had orb with me,so orb drops and rezzes me,but unlike normally where the orb disappears and your energy/health goes back to normal amounts ,it didn't do this.So i rezzed and still had the orb in my hand, i could see the urn-like thing in my hands and the glow it gives,and my energy and health was still modified as if i had the orb in my hand still,however there was no drop item button.So it seems like the game kinda got desynced or something.I'm gonna see if i can get it to happen again ( wont be a problem with these players X_X ) and report back.

ARG! forgot to sign , so here it is Durga Dido 07:39, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Update:

Tried it again , didn't work this time, it might have just been lag, so false alarm. Durga Dido 07:58, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Error?

twas fun, but has this ever happened to other people? Roland Cyerni 03:54, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

yeah, I've had that one before. You can check out a lot of the known errors over on the Error page (if you're interested in seeing what else can happen) Ezekiel [Talk] 06:23, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

New to AB advice Please

after 2 years of avoiding anything PvP like the plague, i've recently gotten fairly bored with PvE and have started ABing. my primary is a Para, and i realized quickly that Paras don't do well in AB at all (at least the style i'm used to playing don't. maybe if i went back to spear attacks/Me build that wasn't shout based i'd do better...) so last night i took my ele in and got into a PuG. Kurz guild, grentz frontier map, and at the start we were doing well. capped rez shrine and took out a group of 4 that came for it, then i ran to another shrine to take it from the Luxons. at this point, my 3 team members all went different ways, and i got confused. the luzons came in a group of 8 and just tried to steamroll us. i ran to a different shrine and started capping when their other group of 4 came charging in at me. i was able to get away, but got stomped between the mob and other group. then i spawned right in the middle of the mob trying to cap the rez shrine. from this point on an even match turned into a rout where we just got it handed to us.

So i guess my question is what strategy should be followed in AB? cap and move on, cap and defend, cap and kill, or just run around killing? i've read comments on forums (guru and GWonline) and overall cap and move on gets the most noise, but the quality of discussion in these topics reminded me more of my kids squabbling over what their favorite Star Wars character is than a debate on AB strategy... my ele was running a fire build, attune, AoRest, flare, immolate, glowing gaze, GoLE, SF, FDH with 16 FM. i also have a necro, monk, and sin that are well developed, and a hammer war and ranger that i got bored with but have basic skills. would i be better off playing a different class in PuGs? tonight my wife, son, and a guildmate are going to try going in as 4 person team, and i'd like to have a good idea of what strategy we should follow when going in.

Thanks Tzalaran 17:02, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Unorganised play: Cap. Organised: Cap and spike every unorganised group into oblivion. --- -- (contribs) (talk) 17:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Paras can do alright in AB; they can have dual Daze, which is a headache for spellcasters. "Fall Back!" is also widely used, and the new "Incoming!" sometimes. Elementalists are a pretty easy introduction to AB: just take strong AoE spells like Savannah Heat, Teinai's Heat, Searing Heat and you can wipe out (almost) every shrine by yourself, and because the AI is dumb they won't even move to retaliate if you cast at full spell range. (Searing Flames isn't very useful unless you have numerous elementalists taking it; that doesn't happen much in AB.)

AB maps can be confusing until you've played on them for awhile; I know I often felt lost early on, and sometimes I still don't know where I am/"where did everyone else go". Even though you could study the maps before playing, the best advice for that is just to play more. :p Pay attention to where the teleporters put you, and where the resurrection shrine is.

It's generally a good idea to stay with the team, because there is safety in numbers; a lone character isn't much good in AB unless they can cap shrines by themselves or tank, since otherwise they will waste time by either running away from other teams or getting killed. It's inevitable that you will get lost sometimes, or die and resurrect before others; when that happens, you kinda have to take stock of the situation to decide what to do. Sometimes you can find other teams and run around with them until you find yours again. Sometimes it's best to wait around or try to find the team (you can ping the compass/draw on it or something).

Above all, *the most important thing* in AB is to cap shrines, because no matter how good a fighter you are, if your team can't cap shrines you lose by default. (It takes a lot longer to get 500 kills than it does to cap seven shrines, and they spawn NPCs/give buffs anyway.) Don't get drawn into "mob" fights just for the sake of killing the enemy (where you have more than 4 Luxons v 4 Kurzicks); it is a waste of time, because even if you win in the end, you've just wasted ten minutes that could have been spent capping shrines. (It should be obvious that attacking a Defy Pain warrior who is being healed by a Monk is pointless, but you would be surprised how many bad players do just that.) There always has to be someone out there capping, and because you can never rely on the other two teams, you should assume that it's your resonsibility.

Some last advice...No matter what class you are playing, it is always useful to have access to speed buffs and/or Shadow Steps, condition removal, and some form of self-defense such as a stance or self-healing. If you can reliably get a good Monk or Ritualist to provide support, that's great, and then you can be a bit more risky; but you'd be surprised, even with a good backline, how much mileage you can get from something as simple as Mending Touch. (T/C) 02:32, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips, they reinforced what i've seen in a few more games today. my guild is getting together tomorrow to go in as a group, and i think i'll be able to see what i'm doing right and wrong better with them as my teammates instead of random people. We'll take your advice and see how things go. :) Tzalaran 10:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Contested Territory section content

This states that the result of Alliance Battles affects the control of towns. I played AB yesterday pretty much all day and won in a 3:1 ratio at least, yet the border continually shifted against us. talking with other players while waiting led me to believe that we were winning way more than losing, yet the border kept moving against us.

after talking with another player, they claimed that it wasn't the wins and losses in AB games that counted, but it was the factions of alliances that control towns that controlled where the border lies. i.e., because there were more Luxon alliances with higher faction than Kurziks, they were taking over our towns and the results of the AB matches wouldn't affect that unless we were transferring faction to a Kurzik alliance.

can anyone with accurate knowledge expand on how the border actually works? i think that this information should be added to this topic, because many different opinions on how this works are out there, and documenting it would be helpful to many people i think. (if the information is presented, i'll be happy to modify the article. i just don't know enough to justify changing what already exists, but i certainly don't think that the results of AB matches helps to determine the border placement at all.) i searched all over the wiki and this little blurb is all i could find regarding the Red/Blue moving border in Cantha. Thanks Tzalaran 18:04, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

There are rumours that (especially during AB weekends) ANet "fixes" the border so that it cycles based on time or some other factor, so that both sides get an "equal chance" to play and it's not stuck at Ancestral Lands for like a week. But other than that I'm pretty sure the results of winning the battles is what moves the border along. You have to remember that there are hundreds (thousands?) of people playing AB all at the same time, and so even if you could talk to 50 people, that wouldn't tell you whether Luxons or Kurzicks are winning more battles... besides, any time I've experienced a map change "forward", it was after a victory, and "backwards" after a loss. Meh. (T/C) 18:14, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

It could be based on Faction donated, actually. In the old system it would work; Wins give more Faction, thus border pushes forward. However, that would be completely broken now (lol, pushing borders bij vanqing your own area), which isn't unlikely. --- -- (contribs) (talk) 18:20, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Wow, quick responses. thanks. i'll be playing some more AB this week (found out i like it this weekend) so i'll see what it looks like then (it would make sense to me if Anet set it so that each of the maps got the same amount of play over the weekend. i know Fri night it was always deep Luxon, Sat it was shallow luxon, sunday morning shallow Kurz and deep Kurz sunday afternoon and night...) It would still be nice if Anet told us specifically how it worked though... Tzalaran 18:31, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The July 13, 2006 update supposedly "Modified the algorithm that causes the alliance battle line to shift. A faction that pushes into enemy territory will temporarily gain a "momentum bonus" that helps it drive the battle line further into enemy territory." Before that, alliance battles only took place on 3 maps: Saltspray, Etnaran, or Grenz. That was because as soon as the line made it to Etnaran or Grenz, that team started winning (due to how the map favors them) and they pushed the line back before it could reach deep territory. Now even if they win the vast majority of matches on their home territory, there is still a good chance the next map will be in Ancestral or Kaanai. --Macros 18:39, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

We(Luxons) have been stuck at grenz and ancestral for ages. idk about faction I just want to play another map. Kurzicks are a disorganized lot that likes to form imbalanced teams that scatter and mob. We can't expect this to change... random map rotation would be a nice way to play different maps even though one of the factions looses more often than not.(Il Spiderpig Il 12:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC))

different maps would be nice, and you are spot on about the disorganized comment. its frustrating to me to the point that i will only pug with my ranger nowdays because i don't have to be overly concerned about my team as he's pretty self sufficient. i'd have to disagree about the mobbing part, as i see just as many Luxons mobbing as Kurzs, Luxons just cap as they mob and kurzicks seem to see a mob and feed it... very frustrating to lose just because our side treats this like RA... Tzalaran 18:22, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Vipermagi. I didn't understand what had changed that makes us play 90% on Kurzick maps now. It used to be different and I couldn't imagine that the Kurzicks suddenly have become lousy players. Concerning mobbing. There's two kinds of mobbing. One kind is when it's used as a strategy and this will usually lose the game and the other kind is when mobbing is a consequence of winning. If you're winning, especially if you're overwhelming the other side, then soon you'll have like 5 shrines under control and all players will move towards the two left over shrines. In that case the mobbing is a consequence of winning and I guess that's why some people think that mobbing is a winning strategy (which it certainly is not).

yarly

ALL YER BASE ARE BELONG TO US! (((87.38.30.2 14:11, 3 March 2009 (UTC))))

o rly? --Macros 14:12, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

nowai <[(87.38.30.2 14:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC))]>

Edited the sig to what I think you meant to use 87, just RV me if I was wrong :-) And ya wai -->Suicidal Tendencie 16:45, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

4 Kurzick Elite Warriors?

Some guy had 4 Kurzick Elite Warriors following him around. (It was a Kurzick of course.) Does anyone know how this is possible? I want some revenge :P Segick 01:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

That takes careful manipulation of the Resurrection Orb and shrine capping. 01:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

might have been me XD last i checked the elites couldn't be ressed anymore. /fistshake at anet! Stormcrowx 06:54, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Rit NPCs

put up their spirits within a second each. I think they're using the PvE versions of the skills. ــѕт.мıкε 18:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Correct. --84.24.141.169 19:10, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. It's not unprecedented. It probably won't be fixed. 19:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

The Seige Turtles in Zos Shrivos are like that, only backwards - they use the Siege Turtle Attack from Fort Aspenwood (the one with enchantment removal) --Macros 20:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

FIX AB

I wonder when ANet will finally out that they could fix AB by giving 2 points for every shrine and 1 point for every kill instead of 1 point for every shrine and 3 for every kill. So you get roughly the equivalent of 1 kill every 7 seconds if you care about capping? Big fucking deal. The luxons just form a mob of 12 people that contains at least 1 MM, 1 spirit spammer and 1 healbot and they stealroll the 4man teams of Kurzicks so bad that capping for them doesn't even matter, it happens automatically in the process. That's the reason the maps haven't been to Kaanai in months. Organized mobbing sadly wins this joke of PvP thanks to ANet's score bias that encourages this mindless killfest. -- 14:59, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, you are wrong. The only reason luxons have been raping kurzicks for the past few months is that all the good ABr's are luxon, and the average kurzick ABer does not know what a shrine is, and doesn't begin to comprehend what a good build is. Face the facts, Luxons are better at AB then Kurzicks, that's all. 75.94.31.80 19:30, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I think most of the good Kurzick AB players realised they can get more faction raping bad Luxon players in JQ Lยкץ๒๏ץ talk 20:57, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

This article needs a rehaul.. there is one AB map; ancestral lands.

New point system

With the new Imperial Faction system in place, they've changed how faction is awarded at the end of matches a bit. Right now the map is Ancestral Grounds, and the formula for points is 4x your final score for Kurzicks, 6x for Luxons, plus 2k additional if you win. More research as the map changes. 01:12, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
The faction per kill has changed from 10 Kurzick/Luxon to 30 Imperial as well.Thorn17 01:16, 5 June 2011 (UTC)