Talk: Barbed Arrows

==Notes==
Unless you're using Poison Arrow, this really has nothing on Apply Poison as far as non-Elite degen preps...easily interrupted? Why? Also, it says "your arrows", which means no melee use. :| [[User:Arshay Duskbrow|Arshay Duskbrow]] 18:14, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
:[[Lacerate]]. Warriors who don't need [[Sever Artery]]. A second ranger with [[Apply Poison]]. C'mon people exercise that set of pink lobes. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]]<small>([[User_Talk:Chuiu|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Chuiu|C]])</small>  18:22, 23 September 2006 (CDT)

Outside of GvG, I don't consider Lacerate an Elite worth using (and even then I wouldn't care for it). As for the rest, if you want a bleed prep that badly, use [[Melandru's Arrows]]. Otherwise, there are much better preps than this. [[User:Arshay Duskbrow|Arshay Duskbrow]] 23:24, 23 September 2006 (CDT)
:[[Melandru's Arrows]] is an elite. What if I don't want to sacrifice my elite slot for it when I can bring this + my elite instead? [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]]<small>([[User_Talk:Chuiu|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Chuiu|C]])</small>  00:17, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
<shrugs and smiles> Then you would bring this, obviously, though I don't know why. Unless your Elite is [[Poison Arrow]]. :P Use [[Screaming Shot]] with a shortbow, or there's even the old unreliable stand-by, [[Hunter's Shot]]. The only way I could see using this is if, as you postulate, you're hellbent on doing bleed, and further hellbent on it being via a (non-Elite) preparation. If that's the case, have at it, but easily interrupted for 2 seconds? Good luck. [[User:Arshay Duskbrow|Arshay Duskbrow]] 00:36, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
:Good luck? You say that as if Rangers are a target of constant physical attacks! [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]]<small>([[User_Talk:Chuiu|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Chuiu|C]])</small>  01:15, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
It's a pointless liability, and you can believe that "constantly" attacked or not, it would find a way to screw you, especially as you're having to refresh it 25% more frequently than most other preps. Barbed is easily interrupted and has less duration than Apply Poison, all the while inflicting a condition that is less potent. Include it in specialized builds if you must, but for a general purpose degen-based prep, it's needlessly underpowered compared to Apply. [[User:Arshay Duskbrow|Arshay Duskbrow]] 01:25, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
:The point isn't to compare it to other preperations that do different things, the point is to find ways to take advantage of it in combination with other skills. As Kessel pointed out you can use this preperation + [[Poison Arrow]] for instant -7 degen on anyone you hit. You can easily spam that around and cause A LOT of pressure on your enemies. How is that so hard for you to see? [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]]<small>([[User_Talk:Chuiu|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Chuiu|C]])</small>  01:47, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
:Being able to inflict 3+4 degen from bow range with a single shot when you mix it up with Poison Arrow - sounds good to me. [[User:Kessel|Kessel]] 01:37, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
umm, you could use apply poison with screaming shot for instant 7 degen and not be easily interupted or use your elite.[[user:zan|zan]]4:50pm 7 november

What is not to like about a NON ELITE prep that causes bleeding? I was honestly waiting for a way to stack 2 degening conditions so this skill is awesome. --[[User:IxI Raiden IxI|IxI Raiden IxI]] 01:40, 24 September 2006 (CDT)

I'd already said (twice), that using it in conjunction with [[Poison Arrow]] would be worth it. [[User:Arshay Duskbrow|Arshay Duskbrow]] 01:52, 24 September 2006 (CDT)

:Comparison: Bleeding is 3 degen, Poison is 4. Duration for barbed 18, poison is 24. Rest is the same. So Poison wins. As for the person that wants to get a large degen with lacerate... That would be a really bad choice. Get the new spirit that gets you a -2...-4 degen when something is poissoned. Its way better than a lame 5 degen. And it's not even an elite.
::... You try to explain why a skill is great and you get a bunch of idiots to argue why another skill is better. Forget I ever said anything! [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]]<small>([[User_Talk:Chuiu|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Chuiu|C]])</small>  09:54, 24 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Anyone tried [[Barbed Arrows]] + [[Poison Arrow]] + [[Toxicity]]? In theory, set the spirit and until that dies cast this then spam arrows that give 9-11 degen :D [[User:Asmodeus|Asmodeus]] 15:29, 26 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Actually, I already added such an idea in the notes but I tried to keep it general so as not to imply this skill must be used with others.  It is a fun idea though and I expect to see at least a few rangers trying it soon.[[User:Vallen Frostweaver|--Vallen Frostweaver]] 08:43, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:::::In case some people are not aware of this, yes, Bleeding IS useful, and to prove that I would draw attention to <nowiki>[R/Me Melandru's Arrows Ranger]</nowiki>. So important is bleeding that they would lose an elite slot just for it, surely then, barbed arrows is worth it? However, I would also like to note that Melandru's Archers are almost NEVER used without a cripshot's Apply Poison. So this is the thing. Without another archer using Apply Poison to stack -7 degen to all, Barbed arrows is pretty pointless. --[[User:Silk Weaker|Silk Weaker]] 09:08, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::This is why I made sure to mention synergistic skills in the notes as I agree with your comments.[[User:Vallen Frostweaver|--Vallen Frostweaver]] 10:24, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
:Agreed, except I changed the skills to slightly more plausible ones =P --[[User:Silk Weaker|Silk Weaker]] 03:55, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
::I still don't see why people keep insisting on listing a seconds prep as a synergistic skill when you can only have one prep at a time active.  I realize it takes a second person for this but still, that's why I had listed a couple examples as "poison-like" for stacking degen.  I'm done with changing it though.[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]] [[User:Vallen Frostweaver|''<small>Vallen Frostweaver</small>'']] 19:38, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

:::I don't understand why people seem hell-bent on insisting this is a useful skill. using this with poison arrow... so what? poison arrow is an elite. therefore merely using screaming shot or hunter's shot would also gain the -7 degen without use of an elite. Furthermore, poison arrow can be blocked. A far better combination would be apply poison + hunter's shot + crippling shot. That would give cripple, poison, and bleed. Far better than poison and bleed. and the poison and cripple cannot be blocked, only hunter's shot can be. -4 unblockable degen and cripple, or -7 blockable degen... when you can always use a second arrow to gain that extra -3 degen. Crippled foes can't kite well.


::I see now it reads:

::''This can easily be combined with other mass degen builds such as poison from Apply Poison or disease fromed Tainted Flesh for further pressure.''

::You may as well say you can combine it with Conjure Phantasm and Parasitic Bond and every other skill that may cause health degen.  These are not useful or necessary notes IMO and should just be left out altogether.[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]] [[User:Vallen Frostweaver|''<small>Vallen Frostweaver</small>'']] 14:24, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Well the thing is this. Apply Poison, Melandru's Arrows, and Barbed Arrows can all ''spread'' degen. Conditions like bleeding and poison can cover cripple or daze, deepwound, and other important conditions. They can also be reapplied in a second, taxing monks heavily. Without Extinguish (which can be interrupted) or martyr (rare too), a monk cannot possibly keep up with all these conditions, whereas by using conjure phantasm and others, hex removal would make short work of them, and cannot be spammed. Apply poison costs 7 energy to poison up to 12 times, conjure phantasm costs 10 energy and additional recharge to degen each. That's not "spreading" degen. The reason I disagree with suggesting poison arrow is because it's a BAD skill. Is it worth an elite for -3 degen? (not -4, because you could use AP), hell no. That's like, seeping wound, but slightly better. Guildwars is a team game. You don't need to have one player to do everything. Like I said, 2 pressure rangers who can BOTH blackout (the spike skill for rangers, as well as anti spike on warriors) interrupt (make sure no devotion signets will be used, cancel extinguish, bye bye heal party, maybe disable BL, interrupt adrenaline spike), and cripple (nail that kill, or just for skirmishes) is far stronger than one who can spread degen by spamming poison arrow and using an interruptable attack skill. Might as well use tainted, warder with barbed arrows, since you don't use arrows for damage anyway.
::: On the other hand, I'm fine with leaving out the notes and let people decide what to do, although it might be helpful to make a point about it being often used ton Dual Ranger builds and ONLY dual ranger builds by replacing melandru's arrows (I predict, anyway.)--Silk Weaker
If people want to make notes about how poison works with bleeding and how cripple can be covered by disease or anything of this nature they can put such comments with the [[condition]] and leave strategy use off the skill description page.  I see nothing of this nature in the notes section of [[Apply Poison]] which is VERY similar to this skill.  I am removing the redundant and un-needed notes from this skill as the notes all pertain to the synergy of the condition it inflicts and not the use of the skill itself.[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]] [[User:Vallen Frostweaver|''<small>Vallen Frostweaver</small>'']] 14:56, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

== Apply Poison ==

Owns this. Hands down. Why not use Apply Poison + Screaming shot? Recharge is the only thing, but aside from that, Poison arrow is a crap elite. End of story. It's an elite that causes -4 degen, compared to a normal preperation with 24 duration that can degen the whole team. Apply poison is also much better thant this, and the only good thing is that it STACKS with apply poison, and as such it should only be used of there are two players using degen, in which case one would use Apply Poison and the other Barbed Arrows, much like a Melandru's Ranger. This will free you an elite for magebane shot, crippling shot, or whatever elite you use. Guildwars is a team game, use your team to do it if you want maxed out degen. Tainted Warder, Barbed, and Apply Poison or something. This though, is a stupid idea. For a meager +3 degen that does not stack with many current skills like Sever, Barbed Spear, and Barbed Trap, you sacrifice an elite, a lot of energy from spamming poison arrows, interruptable preperation, and shorter duration. How the hell does that work? --[[User:Silk Weaker|Silk Weaker]] 08:00, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

Id agree guild wars is a team game. But in a team people have roles. This skill is obviously to be used with Poison arrow and Toxicity to easily stack a -10 degen at range. With this a single ranger can apply huge preasure. Wile others apply more dot with conditional damage hexes like SS, Empaty, Ineptitude ect.. So in the end your point that poison arrow is a crap elite (wich it is on its own) is mute compared to what can be done here this is a good skill and i think they made it easily interuptable to to find some balance in rangers who evade most interuption easily.[[User:NovaTalon|NovaTalon]] 14:40, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

: Firstly, almost noone uses Empathy, SS, and Ineptitude in top games.

: Secondly, -10 or -7 is close enough. It's not worth an ELITE to get -3 at the expense of interruptability and shorter duration. Remember, a cripshot spreads -4 (-7 with dual) degen WHILE interrupting, snaring, and assist spikes with blackout, which, I suppose is what you are trying to say other players are supposed to do. Basically, 2 rangers, each using one degen and various interrupts is far more effective than one ranger with both degens, and another player with other skills.

: Toxicity, I doubt works, but whatever. Spirits will go down pretty quick, and can easily backfire. What are the chances that the opponent won't have a cripshot or tainted necro? 60 recharge? You must be kidding me. One ''easy'' knockdown, savage or distracting shot and your skill slot is wasted. --[[User:Silk Weaker|Silk Weaker]] 14:54, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

Very much agreed, although I do find [[Poison Arrow]] a fun Elite, even if it's not the most useful. :P [[User:Arshay Duskbrow|Arshay Duskbrow]] 18:20, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

::I will cede ground on the fact that Apply Poison is extremely expensive takes time to prepare, and Poison Arrow comes whenever you want it. In the long run, and when used effectively, it's much better, especially since you can use it in conjunction with other elites, but Poison Arrow is pretty fun, yes. Press one to poison target using 2 energy? Sure why not? --[[User:Silk Weaker|Silk Weaker]] 09:04, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

I've seen some decent GvG battles during the event use 2 rangers: one with Poison arrow + Barbed Arrows, and another with Tox + Traps (to defend the flag stand and spirit) + Oath shot (to refresh the traps and spirits).  Seemed to work rather well - especially with a  Necro using Tainted Flesh (since Tox boosts disease damage, too). [[User:24.11.175.161|24.11.175.161]] 11:38, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
:Shh, don't tell anyone that! The general consesus here is that Apply Poison > Barbed Arrows and theres nothing you would want to do with this skill in a build! Rawr. [[Image:Chuiu Me Icon.png]]<small>([[User_Talk:Chuiu|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Chuiu|C]])</small>  14:40, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
::Shh, it's alright, you and me can stick to Barbed Arrows + Poison Arrow and it won't be FOTM enough to be countered kthx. [[User:Kessel|Kessel]] 08:57, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Count me in as well. After being sceptical I've tried it and it worked great for me. Of course, the stuff about interrupting is true, but then again, there is VIM where interrupt should be an even bigger issue but isn't because, to point out the obvious, interrupt can be handled so that it stops crippling a build. Here's a build similar to what I ran during the preview: [[User:RolandOfGilead/R/D Toxic Spammer]]. Lame name maybe, but whatever :) [[User:RolandOfGilead|RolandOfGilead]] 18:41, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Well everyone here says it's good with poison arrows, then I'll try, but I haven't heard anywhere else. I definetly would consider using it with 2 rangers, and maybe a tainted, but really. By the way, I interrupt trappers with cripshot~~ --Silk Weaker
:::::Almost all builds function better if geared towards team play, but that's pretty much a given, isn't it? What's so good about PA/BA as opposed to screaming/apply is ease of use. You get full range and a totally painless 2 energy/1 second recharge per shot, while SS is ca. half range (which you even have to estimate), 5 energy and 8 seconds (which limits bleeding to 4 foes max), which in combination can be quite difficult to time for maximum efficiency. The end result, the enemy team having -7 degen, is the same, but geting there is ''a lot'' less painful with PA/BA. Therefore, you have more time to think where and when you best recast that barbed arrows/toxicity. Is all that worth the Elite slot? Depends on your play style I guess, but for me, it worked. [[User:RolandOfGilead|RolandOfGilead]] 20:00, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
"Unlike Apply poison, this skill is '''not''' Apply Poison."

:Toxicity + This + Apply Poison = win in RA. No monk can keep up with that and people are generally too stupid to destroy the spirits in RA. [[Image:Glimmer_of_Light.jpg|20px|Shiny :o]] [[User:Finrod|Finrod]] 09:23, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:: How about this, no need for this skill at all: [[Apply Poison]] + [[Screaming Shot]] + [[Toxicity]] + [[Lacerate]] = over the maximum degen to counteract regen spells. Aren't i brilliant?--[[User:Samurai snack|Samurai Snack]] 18:49, 19 December 2006 (CST)

::: Screaming Shot is a slightly poor skill, honestly, because it requires you to get in pretty close to get the bleeding out of it, and it has an awful recharge time compared to so many other bow attacks. [[User:PurpleXVI|PurpleXVI]] 16:04, 14 September 2007 (CDT)

Does anyone realize that all these build yall are talking about with Barbed + poison arrow could STILL be used with apply poison and screaming shot, which means you still have your elite slot. [[User:Githyan|Githyan]] 20:17, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
:I agree this skill fails and needs a gigantic buff to make it worthy, but just as a point: they use Poison Arrow with this instead of AP and Screaming because Screaming isn't nearly as spammable. But anyway, like I said, this skill fails severely --[[User:Gimmethegepgun|Gimmethegepgun]] 20:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

== Location? ==

Where can you aquire this skill? I havent been able to locate it yet.

== need nf trainer ==

This skill needs the NF skill trainer. [[User:Xeon|Xeon]] 09:18, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Hero Skills ==

Warden of Whispers in Chantry of Secrets only had 4 ranger skills, and this wasn't one of them. Anyone confirm/deny? --[[User:Shattered Self|Shattered Self]] 21:57, 5 March 2007 (CST)

== Burning Arrow Combo ==
Wouldn't Barbed Arrows+Burning Arrow be better than the combo with Apply Poison? Both cap the degen except Barbed Arrow cost 5 less energy. Also they're less ways to cure bleeding than you can cure poison.
:In PvP, the only thing this has going for it over apply is that it's 5 energy less.  With 10 or more expertise, it's actually only 1-3 energy less. Being easily interruptible really sucks, especially when it's got a lower duration than apply, since people will watch you and then attack to interrupt.  People don't use antidote signet so removal isn't any different between them.  You won't keep someone burning forever so the extra degen from poison still helps.  Just about the only time people use this is with poison arrow to get both conditions out of one character.  People going conditions with two rangers will usually use Melandru's arrows instead.  No one really does condition builds anymore, anyway.  --[[User:Fyren|Fyren]] 00:25, 31 March 2007 (CDT)
::Even not factoring in expertise, the energy to keep them up (assuming you aren't interupted) is very similar. Apply Poison is 5 energy/8 seconds whereas this is 5 energy/9 seconds, 1 less pip of degen (If they use regeneration enchantments or have natural regeneration) and is easily interupted, making Apply Poison superior in every way unless you have poison arrow, which in turn has nothing on burning arrow exept maybe energy cost/duration.--[[User:Devils Apprentice|Devils Apprentice]] 08:17, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Add in [[Poison Tip Signet]] and you can get -3 from bleeding, -4 from poison, and -7 from burning arrow for a total of -14.  I know it caps at -10 but it works well against enemies or bosses with health regen like the [[Glacial Griffon]] or the like since you have to hit and run. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]] [[User:Vallen Frostweaver|''<small>Vallen Frostweaver</small>'']] 23:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
::::Or you could use [[Screaming Shot]] for bleeding rather than this POS --[[User:Gimmethegepgun|Gimmethegepgun]] 00:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
:::::Unless you are trying to take down a target from a distance, then Screaming Shot becomes the POS since you have to be in shortbow range to have the bleeding take effect.  So, again, it is useful, but only in certain circumstances... which is about the same for any other skill created.  No need to be so negative about it. --[[Image:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG]] [[User:Vallen Frostweaver|''<small>Vallen Frostweaver</small>'']] 23:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
::::::and now that argument no longer applies, Hunters shot + apply is better in every way but one; spammability.[[User:Githyan|Githyan]] 16:18, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


== Skill Synergy ==

I've been experimenting with odd skill on my curses bar lately, and what about this skill + Ulcerous Lungs (which has a decent energy cost, is AoE, and is non-elite), possibly combined with Poison Arrow and Toxicity?  Maybe a new generation of widespread degen for rangers?  [[User:X Deity X|<font color="Green">'''X Deity X'''</font>]] [[Image:xdeityx.png]] 02:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
:Waste of elite and skill slots, use BA + Epidemic or run Fevered Dreams for better results [[Image:Entropy Sig.jpg]] ([[User_talk:Entropy|T]]/[[Special:Contributions/Entropy|C]]) 02:33, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
::I for one like the idea. Barbed Arrows + Ulc Lungs ftw! [[User:72.66.107.217|72.66.107.217]] 05:33, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I was running Smiteball the other day with my guildies, and i cam across a team with 2 rangers, one using barbed arrows and BHA, and the other using Fevered Dreams and Choking Gas. There was also a necro using Ulcerous Lungs.                                       needless to say, we were totally pwned. lolz, i think we only got 2 kills... the rise of the condition rangers? =D [[User:Cnk3|Cnk3]] 19:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

== Does this need a slight buff? ==

I find poison arrow much stronger than this skill. Poison=Higher degen, 15e cost, 12 s recharge, 2s cast time. Barbed=Less degen, 10 e cost, 12s recharge, 2s cast time <I>that is easily interupted</I>. So to break it all down, you got the same thing with additional degen for 5 more energy at base. barbed lasts 6 seconds less. Its weak compared to apply poison. I think it needs a 1s cast time without easy interruption. And lets face it, screaming shot, glass arrows, and melandrus arrows are far better choices if you want to inflict bleeding. [[User:Gorbachev116|Gorbachev116]] 03:28, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
:apply poison is better than barbed arrows because poison is a condition that anet wants rangers to be good at, while bleeding is better applied by other classes.  balance doesnt require that a class be able to apply one condition as well as it applies another, or as well as another class applies that condition. the point of classes is to separate the different abilities in the game and distribute those abilities between the classes. sure other classes do it better. sure rangers do other things better. thats intended and necessary. [[Special:Contributions/76.98.149.51|76.98.149.51]] 23:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
::Because if you use Poison Arrow or Poison Tip Signet with this you apply 2 conditions in a single hit. Poison Tip, this and Burning Arrow gives 3. [[Special:Contributions/86.25.27.34|86.25.27.34]] 09:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Saying  : " apply poison is better than barbed arrows because poison is a condition that anet wants rangers to be good at" is a horrible reason,theres lots of stuff that anet would like but in practice dont work as well.

Barbed arrows is worse compared to apply poison simply because bleeding as a condition on itself is very weak,the only real use i can think of for bleeding is to use gash for the deep wound, but even then thats bad.Poison is just a great pressure skill whereas bleeding is very weak. [[User:Durga Dido|Durga Dido]] 03:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
:The only reason I can possibly think of is that bleeding "combos" with certain skills that make it more powerful. I'm talking about [[Gash]]. Of course, that doesn't make sense because poison interacts with [[Toxicity]] and [[Signet of Toxic Shock]]... --[[User:Macros|Macros]] 04:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
new skill update , why the -40 armor now for this and only this preperation ? seems wierd...... [[Special:Contributions/98.220.135.252|98.220.135.252]]
:eeh its okay now, if you really want to apply bleeding, i agree that this, poisin tip sig, and burning arrmow works well, even better now. [[User:Roland Cyerni|Roland Cyerni]] 21:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
::Now, it is somewhat useful becase you can easily spread -7 degen with Poison Arrow--[[User:Manbeast15|Manbeast15]] 15:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
:::It still shouldn't have ANY negative for using it, since it's still weaker than Apply Poison in multiple ways --[[User:Gimmethegepgun|Gimmethegepgun]] 19:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
::::cuz bleeding for rangers is conditional(Hunter's shot on moving foe, Screaming shot in earshot) .. even tho those conditions are not hard to meet.. :p[[Special:Contributions/78.20.153.111|78.20.153.111]] 17:50, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::: hunters shot is no longer coinditional, so there goes that. [[User:Githyan|Githyan]] 16:22, 6 July 2011 (UTC)