Talk:Defensive Stance

This skill needs the factions & NF skill trainer. Xeon 05:03, 11 December 2006 (CST)

Just got it from Michiko in Kaineng Center; dunno if it is available sooner ArcaneApostle 08:00, 11 January 2007 (CST)

Melee attacks and arrows

I did some testing, and the phrase "Melee attacks and arrows" in the in-game description is not accurate. I tried melee, bow, spear and staff attacks and it blocks all of those. So the accurate thing to say would be, it blocks all attacks. If someone can confirm this, I think it should go in the notes section of the skill. -[Adul] 04:44, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Nerf?

Just looked at it. Got for 1-12: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7 seconds. Same thing with a buddy of mine? Did it get nerfed or is it a bug? 71.196.63.223 18:33, 20 January 2007 (CST)

Game updates -Ichigo724 18:36, 20 January 2007 (CST)

I'm sure Rurik is happy about this update. >< Entropy 18:37, 20 January 2007 (CST)

In that last update, they made stance durations AND recharge times shorter. It's not a bad thing. In fact, it's one of the steps to make battles shorter in gw, which leads to a better gaming experience, when talking about the pve side. That's my opinion, at least. -[Adul] 02:56, 21 January 2007 (CST)

I agree with the above user. The Stances may last a much shorter time, but they also have a much shorter recharge. Now instead of having 20 seconds of downtime at 12 Tactics, Defensive Stance has a mere seven seconds of downtime. That makes this much more viable as a cover Stance while using Healing Sig or some other penalizing maneuver of the like. Furthermore, it actually rewards judgment and reflex now rather than how stratospheric your Tactics attribute is. One case I wouldn't agree on is with Gladiator's Defense, but that one remained unchanged this time around. 68.53.168.153 04:12, 2 February 2007 (CST)

But now Warriors actually have to manage their energy, to get the same benefit they used to from Stances. This particular stance it's probably alright, mostly due to the fact that you often use it to cover Heal sig or such - it's stupid to keep up since then you can't use other skills. But for others - like Shield Stance or Disciplined Stance - this is a nerf, at least for Energy-based Warriors. And Disciplined still costs 10 energy. Oops, that was for last testing weekend. Glad it's been rectified. Still I don't like it...Entropy 04:16, 2 February 2007 (CST)

If you think it's a nerf for Energy-based Warriors, it's not much of one, since you'll easily recover the energy needed by the time it recharges. If you haven't, you're just spamming energy skills too much and should rely on Warrior's Endurance or adrenal skills a little more. --220.233.103.77 04:25, 2 February 2007 (CST)

The point is that you never used to need crappy elites like Warrior's Endurance, to be an Energy-based warrior. Entropy 04:31, 2 February 2007 (CST)

If you're an Energy Warrior not bringing Counterattack to battle, then you're obviously gonna have some Energy issues. 68.53.168.153 19:53, 2 February 2007 (CST)

The boost to this is sweet. It makes you a really hard target while you charge up adrenaline, and you don't have to twiddle your thumbs for 40 seconds if you cancel it early. As for energy warriors: Zealous Vow. ;) — 130.58 (talk) 03:06, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Then they kite or slow you down and you're stuck with 2 energy degen. –Ichigo724 08:57, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Good thing dervishes have tons of enchantment self-removal and also a boatload of Crippling spells, huh? — 130.58 (talk) 13:38, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Still not a reason to waste a crapload of attribute points, an elite, and a counter for the easy countering of that elite. Warrior stances got nerfed BADLY by this due to energy problems without a zealous weapon or additional energy management, and "on your knees" got stabbed in the face as well. –Ichigo724 13:41, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Every PvP warrior needs some way to counter kiting, because kiting is a generic warrior counter. The old Defensive Stance was just useless. Short of being a PvE tank, have you ever gone 17 whole seconds without using a skill? Also, the duration-vs.-recharge has been significantly improved. — 130.58 (talk) 14:15, 5 February 2007 (CST)

And for PvE it's useless, GFG. I love how 99% of the skill changes are for pvp or farming. Normal pve play is practically ignored, wonderful. edit: also, that doesn't make it any less waste of an elite. –Ichigo724 14:22, 5 February 2007 (CST)

Meh. Things don't usually try to kite you in PvE, with few exceptions, so Zealous Vow works just fine for "energy warriors" (particularly because you can use it with an IAS). The whole concept of an "energy warrior" without a hardcore e-management skill is just missing the point: warriors have a tiny energy pool and slow regen, but can remedy that with adrenaline skills. The easiest way to build a functional warrior is to use adrenaline for offense and energy for defense or vice versa. It was never viable to do that beforehand, and these changes don't really hurt it very much. What you're doing now is like complaining that a 100% signet-based build sucks unless you bring some skills that specifically boost signets, or that your ranger without Expertise can't afford to use any of his attack skills.

For every situation except "I'm going to stand here doing nothing while the retarded AI blindly wales on me for 20 seconds, despite the fact that it can't actually hit me," the new stances are far superior to the old ones. — 130.58 (talk) 15:54, 5 February 2007 (CST)

It used to be possible to not use a zealous (or additional e-management) and use, say, distracting blow frequently alongside with stances, now even that's near-impossible energy-wise. Also: your analogy with expertise doesn't make sense, it's an attribute compared to an attribute AND an elite AND a counter for the counter for the elite. –Ichigo724 16:13, 5 February 2007 (CST)

I agree that energy's tighter for hardcore stance-users. Using a zealous weapon part of the time does go a long way towards solving that issue, however. Moreover, Defensive Stance was absolutely worthless before, as the situations where you'd actually spend 15-17 seconds without using another skill were, well, few and far between (that's why I only ever saw it being used in the Deep, really). And, like I said, you don't have to worry about kiters in PvE, so you don't need a counter-counter to use Zealous Vow (hell, in PvP, if you're a warrior and let your energy hit 0, it's not that big of a deal -- it's pretty easy to get that 5 back, especially if you have a focus swap, and then a few swings fills you up completely). — 130.58 (talk) 16:52, 5 February 2007 (CST)

I'm not sure if you've been playing PvE recently at all 130.58, since casters kite quite a lot now. It's not as good as humans kiting, but it's enough for me to think about bringing Bull's Strike or possibly a cripple on my bar as a preventative measure so that the hench party doesn't take a beating they don't need. --220.233.103.77 17:10, 5 February 2007 (CST)

I have. A few monks kite incessantly (mostly human ones like Corsairs and Mantle), but I've yet to observe any of the big scaley tentacle-monster type critters doing it significantly (at best, Margonite clerics tend to run back a bit). Bull's Strike would be very nice for countering all the melee creatures around, though, as they do run around a bunch. — 130.58 (talk) 17:29, 5 February 2007 (CST)