Talk: Effective assassin guide

maybe this guide is way to biased towards Random Arena needs Kiteeye 01:32, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

All the other guides have a set structure to their lay out (see Effective monk guide and Effective warrior guide). This article would benifit from some TLC to bring it up to that standard. If nobody else takes a shot at it I'll give it a try over the weekend. --JP 02:50, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

This article should probably have an "Effective use of Shadow Refuge" section, as no one really knows how to use it (in PvP I mean). Everyone uses it when they are nearly dead or trying to run away, and get literally half the healing by doing so. This needs a little love-note on using shadow refuge at approximately 60% health, which is low enough to warrant healing but high enough to not be forced to disengage. My two cents --Gimmethegepgun 19:13, 20 December 2006 (CST)

IMHO this guide blows. Whoever decided to write this is retarded, not just because of this crappy guide, but also for deleting my additions. I guess getting 15 max titles on an assassin including Legendary Survivor really means I don't know how to play my assassin. Or to guide newer players in the right direction. Sins used right own regardless of what anyone says. --Final Fallen 00:17, 18 February 2008 (UTC)Fallen

That was most likely me that removed it. I was planning to explain a bit on your talk page, but didn't get around to it, and I apologize for that.

First off. Just because you've got a lot of experience with Assassins doesn't mean people must agree with you. I do personally agree with most of what you said, but that's not why I removed it. For one, you wrote most of your guide there in first-person; in keeping with the wiki's style and formatting, we keep everything in the main namespace third-person, and as unbiased as possible. As another note, we don't sign comments that aren't on a discussion page.

You brought up a few good points in your addition; I would suggest editing the article a bit to highlight those; keep in mind other people have different playing styles, and the techniques you use to beat hard mode missions might be useless to someone else trying to beat a mission on newbie island. Just try to keep an open mind on that.

And if you think the writer's retarded, that's fine, everyone's entitled to an opinion. Just remember it's not one writer, I counted over thirty contributors to this page before I gave up. :D And there are plenty of people who think 'Sins rock in PvE, myself included. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mention weaknesses if there are any. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 00:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Contemplation of Purity?

it says that Contemplation of Purity is useful for an a/mo but the attribute for Contemplation of Purity is divine favour, an attribute an a/mo doesnt get, thus using it would give you 0hp and waste 5 energy and 1/4 of a second, I suggest this be changed, as this is a rather poor way to remove 1 hex.

It may seem that way, but Contemplation of Purity would be used not for the health gain but strictly for the hex removal. What better way to get rid of Spiteful Spirit or Reaper's Mark by sacking one or two enchantments? FlameoutAlchemist 11:44, 10 February 2007 (CST)

Is this finished yet?

It seems this guide doesn't cover all aspects of assassination.

For instance, picking your target is half your work. Not mentioned in the guide at all.--62.235.146.234 10:57, 11 January 2007 (CST)

And the 'Plan of Attack' part is a mess. Tycn 01:05, 30 January 2007 (CST)

Seconded on that. Peej 09:27, 3 February 2007 (CST)

Sneaky Sage's Edits

I must say that I am very impressed with the amount of detail, work, and effort Sage has done for this page. However, I'm cleaning up most of it. Sage, if you want, submit the PvP and PvE builds in the builds section and I'll link to them in the article here. In the interests of making it a cleaner page, however, I am removing them. Please don't take offense to it, as I think you did some brilliant work here. FlameoutAlchemist 11:32, 10 February 2007 (CST)

Unfair to assassins?

I think this guide is a bit unfair to assassins they can tank quite well dispite the low armor they can block most melee attacks altho the guide points out they r stances or enchantments so easy to remove but in pve the stance removeals are quite uncommon u sure spikeing is good in pvp but besides bosses there is little to no need for spikeing in pve i use jagged strike wild strke and death blossom i get trough 2 chains most with a 8 man hench team. useing the elite skill flashing blades you can block 75% of attacks while attacking so melee is almost useless (trust me its a pain in the ass to hit trough flashing unless you have anti block) as for casters isnt that what monks are for?.--Gene195 05:44, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Have you not seen the assassins that deaths charge into the biggest mob they can find with no defensive skills? Played properly, assassins destroy normal mode though. Lord of all tyria 05:45, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

yeh ive seen them thats kinda my point though too many assassins charge in without defence skills (flashing blades is wonderful even for a spiker) i mean sure a few heal spikes here or there for the eles hitting 100 on the sins but its not like its any better for warrior tanks they dont take 100 from a fireball but they rarely block so they have the added melee damage wich i think would outweigh the damage a sin takes. correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure the only monsters in any of he current games that uses riposite or deadly riposite are bladed aatxes and no one uses sins and very very rarely warriors there. --Gene195 22:46, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

I think that comment should be removed from the guide... the one that says sins are bad in pve and some groups will not accept them. That's not true and I don't know where you got that idea. I've never been denied into a group because I'm a sin before. Are you familier with moebius DP spammers in PVE?

"Tanking"

All that "tank" talk makes this guide look like it was written by some pve idiot. "Don't charge right into the fray - leave that job for your team's Warriors. Once foes have begun attacking the tanks, you should get in" If that's how you're playing a sin, the plain truth is that your monks suck. A warrior only has more survivability than a sin if he's soloing or puging. In an organized group, a warrior's extra armor means nothing. P A R A S I T I C 20:18, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

If that was the case, why EVER bring a warrior? Assassins have better DPS than a warrior, and if the warriors extra armor means nothing, in every scenario there is no reason for a warrior. The guide is there for people new to assassins, which that is good info for new people. Granted decent monks can keep anything alive, but is it worth it to drain more of the monks energy so that you can attack 2-3 seconds earlier? --DEATHWING 02:04, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Sins have more DPS than wars? Theres a laugh. Everyone knows wars have the highest DPS out of all professions, unless you count the damage to everything from an ele's AoE. Unless of course you mean a DB-moebius combo spam, which will cause everything to scatter and rip apart your teammates. Anyway, though a sin can survive just as well in the front as a war with good monks, the war takes less damage due to absorption, higher armor, and occasionally Knight's and/or Lieutenant's Insignias, and so will not put as much pressure on the monk as a sin would --Gimmethegepgun 02:19, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

Actually, against the higher leveled enemies, who have higher armor, the warriors damage from his weapon is barely any more than a set of daggers. While it may be true that warriors have higher DPS against squishy level 20s with 60 armor, the majority of PvE, the PvE that is even worth mentioning, has higher leveled monsters. Higher leveled monsters = higher armored monsters, which means that armor ignoring damage is a whole lot more effective than brute force smash em damage. --DEATHWING 02:39, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

And unless a large amount of the bar is devoted to energy management with stuff like Critical Strike and Critical Eye, the DPS can't be maintained except out of luck. The war uses adrenaline which, unless it meets Soothing Images, can stay going forever reliably --Gimmethegepgun 02:53, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm not going to argue about it, keep your opinion I will keep mine. --DEATHWING 02:58, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

No no, keep arguing! I really wanna know which class has a better DPS in pve =p My sin goes 16dag/13crit with Critical eye...I go slightly low on energy sometimes, but double striking + zealous dags can get it back up very fast. P A R A S I T I C 15:31, 27 July 2007 (CDT)

Warriors have poor poor DPS compared to other melee classes. The assassin has more DPS, a ranger with a non-spiking builds has more DPS. Hell, even the Paragon's spear at 14 mastery has more DPS than a Warrior.

Critical Agility(sunspear rank9) + Mystic Regen(8 points invested) ftw(nightstalkers helps too, to put you farther down on the aggro list), I can tank most things without much of a problem and the monks don't have to do much to keep me alive. Yeah I die sometimes, but the key is knowing when to run away for a min. There have been a few times where I was the only one who survived a fight. IMO assassins are the most fun in melee. Bartelby 19:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Critical Agility + Critical Defenses + Mystic Regeneration. Insane survivability. But the thing about that is, it's technically not "tanking", which is the point here; a tank's job is generally to simply absorb damage, and hold aggro. Warriors excel at this, because you've got tons of armor, runes of absorbsion, knight's insignia... not to mention defensive stances and shouts. Assassins can survive just about as long, when used correctly, but still, your job should never be just holding aggro. An effective Assassin should be taking out targets, and really using all the fast combos they've got that nobody else does. The extra survival is just a very, very nice bonus to that. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 20:11, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok what

"A great way to do this is take advantage of an Elementalist's armor bonus through Earth Magic using skills such as Armor of Earth." If I ever see a sin take armor of earth and say wiki said it was a good idea im going to kill someone =P. Armor of earth wth? and lose mobility? This is just such a dumb way to end it i cant even speak =X --The Gates Assassin 00:14, 3 September 2007 (CDT)

/agree seriously what idiot wrote that? no wonder people think sins are noobs :P -Cardsharp btw too lazy to log in

This

Guide sucks tbh. In PvE it makes assassin seem like they have 10 armor and only have the ability to spike. In PvP it makes them seem like they only have the ability to poof in and hopefully get a kill. Both are untrue. This guide leaves out the fact that sins are amazing gankers, they have strong builds like critical scythe and moebius and Shattering assault. It needs a major rewrite. Not to mention it doesn't really explain how to use them. It just says what is good, sometimes it doesn't even do that and will list bad skills. If someone read this guide, I bet they would still be that stupid nub sin that likes to poof in right from the start to the monk that already preprotted himself and will try to train the monk.

Flashing Blades is a useful Elite skill, granting the user a block chance while attacking- Not only is Flashing blades a terrible ELITE SKILL, it doesn't really explain the good or bad points. It says that it exists. --The Gates Assassin 04:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Fixed up the article a little bit.--The Gates Assassin 04:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

This still needs more work - it should perhaps be simplifed - its full of useless stuff. The things that need the most attention in a guide like this are:

PvE: 1.Death Blossom Spamming 2.Scythe Assassin 3.Critical Barrager 4.Perma Shadow Form 5.Spiking (with cautionary note that it fails pretty hard in high end Hard Mode)

PvP: 1.Spiking (daggers) 2.Pressure (scythes etc) 3.Anything else that's "in" (palm strike etc).

I like the Second Profession bit, should put paragon in thou (with spear or daggers and hexbreaker aria) Xiay 80.238.8.128 10:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)