Talk: Insidious Parasite

Holy crap. This just got a HUGE buff.--Coloneh 14:07, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

Yes, table needs updating too. By the way, a Curses Necro with Spiteful Spirit and Insidious Parasite, and a Blood/Dom Necro with Spoil Victor and Empathy, could deal well over 200 damage to shiro every time he attacks, with his AoE attacks and incredibly fast attacks, 4 warriors (Storm of Swords, and to trap him for aggro), these necros and 2 monks (just for general healing), he'll be taking well over 1000 damage per second.. mad.. just a shame Shiro doesn't drop greens, or I'd be taking teams to farm him :P --Terrifi Cani 17:16, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

If shiro dropped greens there would be 10 pages of untested builds to solo him. most of them just a greneth tank with a stupid name.--Coloneh RIP 00:50, 29 October 2006 (CDT)

One thing I noticed when using this in FoW is that it triggers multiple times with Barrage, and although you should be able to infer this from the skill description I was wondering if it might be an idea to state that as a note. I ask because people (who noticed) were surprised I was echoing this when going against Shadow Rangers instead of SS, but this is much more damaging and also helps to offset their party-wide damage (if you bunch too much). RossMM 08:25, 2 February 2007 (CST)

I've also noticed this against Dervishes - I've been using this against Djinn with lots of success. PsyDoll 16:55, 4 February 2007 (CST)

this is incredible in RA, since most Assassins and Dervishes hasnt played Necromancer and dont know the power in curses, they tend to commit suicide fairly quick with this hex on them!! Majnore, 03:43, 1 August 2007 (CDT)

updated

the update that came with nightfall claims to have upped it to 15...45. Looks like we'll need a new table. Wixery 00:02, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Miss

The note already says characters who miss will not trigger insidious. --Fyren 18:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)

Icon

Parasite's icon continues to creep me out. <shudder> I sometimes think twice about loading my Curses template because of it! =) — HarshLanguage 18:42, 25 December 2006 (CST)

It has some resemblance to eddie on some of the older iron maiden album covers--DVDA

nerfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff --87.1.197.10 19:04, 18 February 2007 (CST)

Overpowered

Confirm/deny?

In low end pvp, this basically makes you invincible against all melee with no hex removal. P A R A S I T I C 15:21, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

This is why i never go Melee (except spike sin sometimes) in RA. -- Xeon 15:24, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Indeed, this does NOT deserve to be as powerful as Empathy at same attribute levels, and it's not just low-end PvP. Use this and weakness on someone and the only way they can actually hurt you with their weapon is if they get a lot of crits with a hammer, and they'll still be killing themslves in the process --Gimmethegepgun 16:02, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Why not? its got a higher recharge, higher energy cost than Empathy? its not just like this better version of empathy, it has its downsides as well mate.. Majnore, 16:12, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

If you're a necro you honestly shouldn't care about the 5 extra energy it costs, and the lack of FC is made up for by the 1 second cast. It can still be kept up indefinitely at 12 Curses or above, and the only way the damage ISN'T dealt is if they fail to hit something. Unless you're running a Reckless Haste/Price of Failure build, Empathy fails in comparison to this skill --Gimmethegepgun 16:15, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

I know when Im beaten... Majnore, 17:05, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Don't forget that Empathy will do damage whenever they attack, Parasite requires a hit. If someone on your team puts blurred vision or Aegis up, the power of Parasite lessens, while Empathy is constant.--Gigathrash 17:18, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

The fact that its a hex really makes this unfair for any melee, it can not be striped off unless you have a good monk or maybe an expel hexes char on your team (or similar), which you never get in RA. Both Empathy and Insidious Parasite recharge before the duration of the hex ends at lvl 12. Enfeeble and Insidious are a guaranteed shutdown on most melee you will meet, they only thing you have to worry about then is a spike sin. -- Xeon 17:32, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Just to clarify, its strong because there is no easy way to counter it being a hex, you can counter conditions quite easily on a melee char now but hexes are almost impossible without using an elite spot, or ones with severe penalties (ie. Purge Signet). -- Xeon 17:43, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

Ever used it on a Derv? Twin Moon Sweep + Mystic Sweep + Eremites Sweep + Large group of Luxon Warriors = 540 life stealing in 2 seconds. The Hobo 17:55, 4 August 2007 (CDT)

It's not overpowered for several reasons. First of all it does a lot of things, but make the caster invincible is not one of them, otherwise everybody would use it. Secondly it's expensive, and thirdly and maybe most importantly, it ends when the caster dies. Not to mention the fact that it only works when the target is actually hit, so if your assassin is attacking a monk (highly probable), chances are, he's not losing much life. Empathy does just as much damage, is cheaper, lasts longer, cools down faster, and doesn't end when the caster dies. And it works whether they hit their target or not, meaning it even works on IW mesmers or Assassins whos shots are being blocked. Not to mention that with fast casting it casts almost just as fast. How come nobody is complaining about Empathy?

I think this skill is overpowered because it can be upkept and the life steal is too high. As a response to the anonymous ones comment, at any time that i do more damage than Empathy deals in one attack, I will be hurting the enemy more than myself and I can freely attack through Empathy. With Insidious, if I am hexed by a Necromancer with 14 Curses then it will steal 43 health on hit. If I deal the same amount as Insidious steals, which is 43, the caster will not lose any health but I will lose 43. That means for me to cause more damage than I take while hitting the enemy who hexed Insidious on me, I must do TWICE the damage that Insidious causes to me to break even. Against that Necro with 14 Curses, my attacks would need to do 86 on all hits for my attacks to be profitable in the least. THAT is why this skill is overpowered. If not a life steal nerf, then at least increase casting time to two seconds so that Necros cannot easily reapply it left and right and incapacitate melee players.ArisB 23:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Well if you just use a skill to block attacks and use Empathy, you will barely get hurt AND it damages them a great deal. Not possible with Insidious Parasite 72.45.52.232 22:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Are you telling me Necros have a large list of skills that let them block attacks, making Empathy a better choice for the average Necromancer? Because last time I checked, they didn't. Sorry I misread, Reckless Haste blocks attacks right*sarcasm*. Plus, Insidious Makes you invulnerable to Assassins because they ussually do not do 86 or more damage in each hit as I said earlier, so they can almost never do more damage to that Necro than they are taking. This is one skill on the Necros skil bar BTW...ArisB 03:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious why no one complains about Empathy? It doesn't steal life. Not an overpowered skill, but in low-end pvp, it's king. P A R A S I T I C 07:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree that its a bit overpowered,using this on my ss necro in ab,i quickly destroyed a dervish,a warrior,and an assassin all by myself :),i remember i had arcane echoed insid,casted it on the warrior and sin,cast ss on the dervish,put and empathy on the warrior,and put price of failure on the sin,it cost a hell alot of energy,but it was worth it.

Eh, it's not too bad really....it hurts but it only helps the caster. Price of failure or reckless haste would be more useful, unless you hate the rest of your team. 222.153.229.8 00:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Triger time

Should note about triger time added into description? Insidious Parasite trigered before damage from attack. --Master of shadows 06:38, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

If you want, go ahead. --Fyren 12:37, 1 June 2007 (CDT)

PS

Different from other life-steal, or does prot work?

Why would it be different from other life-steal? --Blue.rellik 04:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Because it's a hex. I dunno', just thought it might be. o_O; Zeek Aran 04:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Usage - Two people

Question: If two people cast this on the same person... do they both get the healing effect? Truemyths 06:06, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

This triggers on a successful hit, so, whenever person A/B hits person B/A would gain X health. --Shadowcrest 22:20, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

did u really undertsand the question Shadow? I think he wanted to know what happens if 2 necromancers cast this on the same warrior...ur answer kinda answers the question "what if 2 dudes cast this on each other and starts fighting" --Majnore 07:28, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Hex stacking says that the last person to cast it would gain healing, and the first person would waste 15 energy.--ìğá†ħŕášħTalk 03:28, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

When you stack two life bond's both monk's receive the redirected damage (although the damage is still only cut in half), you may be right however, hexes may have different rules than enchantments. --24.13.163.217 03:56, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Assassin's Promise says Giga is wrong. 99.142.33.249 04:10, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

NERF

This REALLY needs a nerf. Dont put any posts here saying oh its not that over powered. It is. Dont say its recharge is too long, since its easily maintainable on a necro. Dont say empathy is good compared to it; empathy doesnt life steal so a decent hammer warrior will still kill you. Dont say its energy cost is too high; you got 4 pips of energy, and soul reaping for that matter. Plus, the fact that its 1 sec makes it nearly impossible to interupt on a ranger, and difficult if your a mesmer.If your a mesmer then you wont have time to interupt since you will have an angry warrior on you and you arent stealing any life because empathy doesnt steal life, unlike insid. Better yet, you can cast arcane echo to have 2 copies of the skill, and you will gain back the energy cost because the sin or war you cast it on dies because they are standing around. Either make this skill 2 sec cast, not maintainable until about 16 points are pumped into curses, or give every single melee class some godly anti hex.End point of this is that this reaaaaaaaly needs a nerf.Goes to show how much anet hates melee.Ur Just Jealous §§§§§§§ 02:21, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

You forgot to tell us not to say "the melee can just stop attacking" and "the energy really is too high in PvP, when things don't die as often and you have other things you need to tabhex" and "have a half-decent monk on your team" and/or "have a half-decent ranger on your team, who can interrupt more than just res sig" and "the necro's job is to shut down melee" and "other necro skills are even more overpowered, so complain about them instead". --Macros 05:25, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

^^Lol, gg. I <3 this skill. (In PvE). (Though real people are still dumb enough to die from it). RoseOfKali 06:02, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's epic watching a war keep attacking you nd then die. Or an assassin (double strike ftw?). It's quite powerful, probably one of the most powerful non-elite necro hexes, but countered easily enough. Also, if a ranger or mesmer can't interrupt 1-sec casts, he's bad. Usually, rangers go stand right next to those that they want to keep interrupting in PvP.--El_Nazgir 09:02, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, no, not really. Rangers that have to stand next to their target are either pretty bad at it or want to catch ½ s. An experienced Ranger can hit WoH at shortbow range pretty consistantly. Standing next to your target makes it too obvious what you're trying to do, and defeats the purpose of having a fucking bow out. In GvGs, it's that much mor hilarious since you're an easy target for their Warriors (hello, snares), and if you need to fall back you have to cross their backline, midline and frontline, only to end up in your own frontline... whilst being a midliner. You're pretty much dead by then.

But that's all off-topic. In PvP, any serious form, IP is too expensive to keep up on a target, and if the target keeps hitting stuff whilst under IP, it's either a stubborn Ranger rupting everything or a moron. Morons deserve to die to this. Yes, it's LL Life steal. So what. No attacks, no leech, no heal. ANet hates melee because Melee is the sole reason everything in arenas higher than RA dies. Warriors pump out crazy damage nowadays, and unless they nerf either Strength (... it doesn't even do that much to begin with), nerf every attack skill (admittedly, +30 damage and DW is a lot), nerf base damage or increase everyones armor (which would make Eles that much more pointless), Warriors stay at the top. Adding to that is that Warriors can spike and pressure simultaneously, provided you're not too incompetent to switch targets and autoattack. Having a little melee hate (LOL BSURGE) isn't bad. It's a balancing factor, and even now it's insufficient. There's nothing wrong with IP until Warriors are fixed.

And don't get me started on the Scythe. --- -- (contribs) (talk) 13:09, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

A interrupter can also anticipate when someone is going to use a skill, if they're using it on recharge. And if they're the AEcho type, well, AEcho itself is easy to interrupt, and if not, at least you know they're going to use another skill right after it. And since it's a necro hex, it's usually followed by Parasitic Bond. Following patterns makes you easy to interrupt.

Oh, and interrupting isn't limited to rangers and mesmers. Warriors have a couple interrupts, which I see used quite frequently. Often to devastating effect. It's funny when you see a warrior dchop Guardian, and the monk dies as a direct result. --Macros 19:38, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

And Viper: Rangers can do that in HA (and any less srs arena, which is basically everything except GvG) because positioning is less important. Even the monks do it! --Macros 19:45, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, all that about interrupts, and no one mentioned the other easy way to counter this? I'm disappointed in you guys. :P —Dr Ishmael 20:02, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

I thought about it, but then decided it was either A) too obvious or B) not true, since Parasitic Bond owns most hex removals. --Macros 20:28, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

The interrupts thing was in response to Ur Just Jealous' comment about interrupting 1s casts, which isn't specific to IP :P (I just leveled up Derail Converation. Next time I sleep I get an x5 Personality multiplier. Nice)

I like to cover hexes with Wastrel's Demise. I'm an oldskool N/Me noober :) --- -- (contribs) (talk) 20:49, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Convert Hexes says hi. Same energy/cast/recharge as IP, blows away PB, and turns them both into +armor. If you're like Viper and use WD, well, that's less +armor, but it still gets IP. (Disclaimer: I do not PvP, so I expect someone to now explain why Convert Hexes isn't as good as I think it is.) —Dr Ishmael 21:11, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

I don't PvP a lot, and only CA, AB and RA, but 15e for hex removal is enormous under any circumstance for a monk.--El_Nazgir 21:23, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Convert? What happened to PnH? Same recharge, lower cast, one-third (!!!) energy cost. Convert used to be stuck on pro mesmers (those that hit PDrains, pre-nerf) and almost all Eles, but it's fallen out of grace; either hexes were applied too easily (loLC is a recent example) or the Hex spammers were molten away (2 Warriors pummel Necros to the planes of Oblivion pretty quickly). And then came PnH. --- -- (contribs) (talk) 21:34, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, Convert was never an option for monks, whose primary energy management is not casting (excluding a few things like channel tanks and bonders). PnH almost single handedly pushed hexway out of the meta (with a little help from the nerfbat), which in turn caused people to stop bringing PnH since there weren't nearly as many hexes around.

Back on topic: pre-veiling can beat pro Parasitic Bond spammers. --Macros 22:11, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Don't forget Mantra of Flame during SFway times, and PDrain//Inspired Hex/Enchant. Those were pretty useful, too. I fondly remember InspEnchanting HB as a WoH. Infuse? Who needs that when you have an equally powerful WoH that doesn't cost you hundreds of health, and can self-target? Due to IE's energy return, it was pretty much free to get, too.

Pre-veiling beats any cover hex, really. That's why Monks care to spend a theoretical one energy every three seconds for it (due to missing one pip). --- -- (contribs) (talk) 22:25, February 16, 2010 (UTC

I guess you guys didnt realise that when your in RA(i dont see this used THAT much in the other arenas)you dont always have a monk. There's also the fact that the monk has some super angry melee on the other team, and that same necro is hexing the monk, and monks dont usually have 3 hex removals. And the energy cost is NOT too high, if you know how to play ;)oh, btw, your not supposed to cast your key skills in a regular pattern, people do pick up on it pretty quick. and if that melee is just standing around, he dies98.218.8.90 01:16, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

yes its OP u can malmost maintain it at 10 cursed. with a 40/40 even more op.

Macros, necs can do more than just Melee hate. Heard of N/Rt? Corrupt enchantment? The list of not melee hate goes on and on dude--Ur Just Jealous §§§§§§§ 01:28, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

^agreed--Xunlai Agent Nick 01:35, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes you just can't win. That's called "getting your ass handed over on a silver platter". Deal with it. Or carry an interrupt (I presume you're a warrior; every decent warrior should be able to rupt somehow). Get a hex removal of your own (OMG BUT WA/MO IS NOOBER). Shock his face off. What does Corrupt Enchant have to do with anything? Or N/Rts for that matter --- -- (contribs) (talk) 11:52, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, of course a necro can do more than shut down melee. But because they're so good at it, it's basically become "their role". So don't get upset when a necro beats you in rock-paper-scissors. They're just doing their job.

Also, nothing should be nerfed on account of RA. It's not a good place to determine if something is overpowered or not.

Rather than trying to get something that beat you nerfed, try to beat it instead. --Macros 14:03, February 17, 2010 (UTC)