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Talk:Keystone Signet

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Mantra of Signets, then Keystone Signet. Hmm. 00:21, 21 October 2005 (EST)

High inspiration and Mantra of Inscriptions will work out to be more energy efficient. Been fiddling with this as part of my current tombs build: inscriptions, succor, keystone, weariness, humility, leech, purge, resurrection. The last six are signets. Use succor on your monks. Leech signet will give you the energy to recast succor to reactivate inscriptions. Use signets as soon as possible. --Fyren 02:35, 21 October 2005 (EST)
Other than the fact that this can be used for an energy-efficient signet-and-maintained-enchantment build, are there any good uses for it? Otherwise I'll add The Tag. :) Entropy 01:41, 4 January 2007 (CST)
Basically no. There are just gag/gimmick signet builds. That message was from 2005, heh. --Fyren 01:50, 4 January 2007 (CST)
Yay Fyren! :)
Red thumbs down.png This Signet has been voted as Less Able to Make Effective (LAME).

Several users of GuildWiki have formed a consensus that this Signet sucks and badly needs an update from Anet.

This Signet was voted as lame for the following reasons:

  • Only used in gag/gimmick signet builds.
  • Pretty much useless.
  • Disables any non-signet skills - highly inflexible.

Entropy 01:56, 4 January 2007 (CST)

Does KS recharge a copy of KS?[edit source]

Anyone ever tried it? Steal an Echo from a friend, echo Keystone Signet, then use the copy. Does the first Keystone Signet now get recharged? (Yes, I am bored at work, why do you ask?) — Stabber 07:49, 24 February 2006 (CST)

No, multiple copies of keystone or oath shot won't recharge each other. -- 08:10, 24 February 2006 (CST)

reference[edit source]

Except for the name, which may be a coincedence, how can you associate this skill in anyway with the Keystone? -PanSola, Table of The Lyssa Advocacy Front (sing) 09:55, 17 May 2006 (CDT)

I think we're running out of tin-foil. --Black Ark 15:52, 19 July 2006 (CDT)
I think it is ment to be seen as the "signet of signets" or a keystone like in a bridge where it is central to keeping other bricks in the bridge standing up --Jamie (Talk Page) 05:48, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

Worst Skill EVER[edit source]

Anyone beg to differ?

I do beg to differ. It's not all bad. This can be combined with Signet of Disruption, and Leech Signet Darkerhat 20:33, 16 January 2007 (CST)

You get more casts over time with a decent-specced mantra of inscriptions than with keystone signet for a lot of signets... --Kit Engel 20:45, 16 January 2007 (CST)
I would rather use this than use Balthazar's Pendulum. Tycn 00:22, 17 January 2007 (CST)
I dunno; mantra of signets combined with signet of disruption and leech signet does quite alot. (can do your signets 3 times)
I'll have to get my friend to write another reply (I'm not a mesmer kinda guy) but he managed to use keystone signet in a build that really did some damage. He used it in combination with mantra of signets to recharge his signets and cast 3 times fairly quickly. Imo, keystone signet is the mesmer version of a few warrior skills: it's a great skill when used properly, but few people actually use it properly. --Cynn 00:59, 24 January 2007 (CST)
Heh heh, bring it on then. Can't wait to see what new gimmick build using Keystone you have. I still say the tag is well-deserved. Entropy 03:33, 24 January 2007 (CST)
Quoting Cynn's friend concerning the utility of Keystone Signet:
Keystone Signet is one of those skills where the benefit often goes unappriciated. Elites like Echo are instantly gratifying, while the utility of Keystone Signet lies in what it can do for a build in the long run.
The secret to Keystone Signet lies in its ability to use signets repeatedley. By combining the stance Mantra of Signets at any level of Inspiration Magic, followed immediately by using Keystone Signet, all of your signets, including Keystone Signet, can be recharged. This allows you to use your other signets, recharge them all with Mantra/Keystone, then use the signets a second time, then use Keystone again, and finally use the signets a third time. By this point, the non-signet skills on your bar should be ready again (4-second disable at 16 inspiration magic,) or, if you are using an entire skillbar full of signets, allows you to use all of your skills multiple times, which is especially nice for signets which normally have longer recharge times.
Just for the sake of argument, consider the folliwng build I just made up for this demonstration. This build uses spells and signets together:
1. Signet of Humility (just a random signet thrown in to demonstrate)
2. Ether Lord (hexes are good when your skills are disabled - if you know how to use Backfire, this is common sense)
3. Ether Signet (just a random signet thrown in to demonstrate)
4. Ether Feast (for self-healing)
5. Unnatural Signet (primary source of damage)
6. Mantra of Signets (to augment the use of Keystone Signet)
7. Keystone Signet (Elite - the skill in question)
8. Ressurection Signet (of course - unaffected by Mantra or Keystone)
On a Me/Any wearing a set of Artificier's (Armor +3 [for each equipped Signet])
This mesmer could have:
12+1+3 Domination Magic, for added damage
12+1 Inspiration Magic
12+1+3 Inspiration magic, for a quicker spell recharge
12+1 Domination magic
In this build, Unnatural Signet, with a recharge of 40 seconds, is a source of damage. While it is ineffective when only used once, it makes a nice spike when used 3 times. At 16 Domination Magic, Unnatural Signet deals 79 damage, and if cast 3 times consecutively, that is a nice spike of armor-ignoring, 0-mana-cost damage which deals a total of 237 damage.
Keystone Signet is, truly, its namesake in this build. It is the skill which augments the effectiveness of many of the other skills here. While I selected several random Ether spells for the build, one could easily fill in the gaps with whatever they like - Hexes with long recharges will work and remain disabled while Keystone signet recharges the signets, and will suffer no penalty, for one example. Elementalist spells with long recharges would also work well.
The strength of this skill on an all-signet build (Me/N and Me/Mo combos come to mind...) are even more effective, but this subjects the entire build to anti-signet skills like Rust, Ignorance, and Panic. Ultimately, the decision of whether to go all-signet or not is up to the user - just know that the option is there, and very viable.
In any event, while Keystone Signet has a very distinct role, the role functions as it should. The armor bonus from Artificier's Armor, having little reliance on energy (and thus being immune to energy denial) and having a build that not many people are using are just some of the benefits to using this skill. To my knowledge, there are only 5 elite signets (Archer's Signet, Boon Signet, Cautery Signet, Keystone Signet, and Plague Signet) meaning that all but 4 signets in the entire game can be combined with, and benefit from, Keystone signet. I'm not the most creative person in the world. I leave it up to you to decide how you want to use Keystone Signet, or even if you want to use it at all. But it certainly has a use. There are no skills which are useless - only people who have not taken the time to find a use for them.
-Bill 01:42, 26 January 2007 (PST)
Eh...that's still a crappy build. Put it up for R-a-b and watch it burn. Entropy 20:01, 29 January 2007 (CST)

You can't "spike" unnatural signet 3 times in a row. This is more of a, let's do 73 damage every 2 seconds over 6 seconds. Not to mention that if you were to do this, you wouldn't be using Keystone signet to its fullest extent, becuase you would not be using your other signets in between. If you added other signets in between, your "spike" could end up being a 25 second event (on the low end) due to signets' high cast times.
Fast casting. 02:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Buff[edit source]

Nice try Anet :) Tycn 04:08, 6 April 2007 (CDT)

The recent update apparently lowered the recharge to 20s...yet the page already has 20s recharge, and the page history says there have been no updates since Jan 2007. Was the recharge wrong on this page before, or did ANet change the number from 20s to 20s? Issa Dabir 11:48, 7 April 2007 (CDT)
Don't check the page, but the skill template itself.Jelmewnema 13:32, 7 April 2007 (CDT)

PvP?[edit source]

Is this not usuable in PvP? I wanted to try on my A/Me signet spiker, but its not showing up and I know I unlocked it. If not, I demand 3k faction! -Samurai-JM-Assassin 22:06, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

Are you on a PvP character? --Fyren 00:41, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
So you would put 12 into (Inspiration I think) just to cast signet of toxic shock twice? Kinda useless if you ask me. Not only that but it disables all your spells which isthe key to the sig spiker. 00:29, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
You don't HAVE to spend attribute points in Inspiration, only use is to disable skills shorter.

This would be a lot better with a recharge time of 5, i might actually USE it if it had. Dark Morphon 09:28, 4 September 2007 (CDT)

How about add "For each signet recharged, you gain 10...50 health" or "For each signet recharged, you lose 1 hex" or "for each signet recharged, you gain +3 armor for 10 seconds" or "ANYTHING" WingspanTT

I like it! "All of your Signets except Keystone Signet become recharged. All of your non-Signet skills are disabled for 17...7 seconds. ANYTHING!" You get some random enchantment, hex, damage, healing, death for you or against you? LoL Keystone Signet Spike. PaintballerSig.jpg The Paintballer (T/C) 09:49, 12 September 2007 (CDT)

Big Buff[edit source]

Prepare for Mesmer Signet builds, Keystone is now worthy of elite at 10 second recharge.Paragon City 23:42, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

still doesnt synergize with much-- 00:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
A lot, actually. Obs-modding a GvG mes build got me the following results-
Symbolic Celerity.jpg

Symbolic Celerity

Mantra of Inscriptions.jpg

Mantra of Inscriptions

Signet of Weariness.jpg

Signet of Weariness

Signet of Distraction.jpg

Signet of Distraction

Signet of Humility.jpg

Signet of Humility

Unnatural Signet.jpg

Unnatural Signet

Keystone Signet.jpg

Keystone Signet

Death Pact Signet.jpg

Death Pact Signet

Signet of Distraction really screws up a caster if it gets a hit in, it's like a weaker but free (and casting faster) Diversion with six signets in there. Have no idea how point distribution would be though. Still, with the recent buff I really think Keystone Signet needs the LAME tag off now. --Xiu Kuro 00:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
If it makes it as a permanent change, remove it. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 00:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

No one suppose this could revitalize SoMW spike? -- 00:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Not really worth it. Better off using a horribly broken signet debilitation build, like the above. Huge amounts of energy denial, while at the same time, blocking elites of up to 2 players simultaneously and even the power of a Power Lock through Signet of Distraction and the many signets on the bar. --Kale Ironfist 01:52, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

WOW this is almost as strong as pre-nerf MoR O.O Shut down a blindbot and the SoD and d-sig LoD=gg defence. I didn't believe ANet could actually nerf this into usefulness, much less make it one of the better mesmer elites. Still, not imba, because if it really becomes meta, teams will just carry complicate, or know who to diversion/d-shot/(ironically)hum sig first. (O, btw, I LOVE the change, think it's great) 21:55, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Meh, nevermind taking off LAME tag. Today's update rekilled it. RiP signet spamming :( --Xiu Kuro 00:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't even get to play with it >:0 P A R A S I T I C 02:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Neither did I :( --Kale Ironfist 02:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Just make sure mantra of inscriptions is up when u use this.... pretty simple 03:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
If 20 second recharge is LAME worthy, and 10 second recharge is "overpowered" (in Areanet's eyes), then you'd think they would have compromised with 15 second recharge, instead of reverting it.

And nerfed[edit source]

Wow, A.Net surely knows how to nerf a almost useless skill. — Abedeus Sandstorm.jpg 12:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

someone please confiscate his shift and caps locks keys~~
Rofl. Lord of all tyria 17:12, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Done. Mr. Caps Lock has left the building ;) Andran Steel 18:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

And stupidly overpowered.--Ikimono...And my Axe!Monk-Paragon-icon.png 07:47, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

Buff (again)[edit source]

lolwat? A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:35, May 22, 2010 (UTC)

wow, I read the description and want to start playing with my mezzy again Venom20 18:11, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
Oh. Why?
Personally if I want to role an Elementalist, I role an Elementalist. A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 19:59, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
what now? who is talking about ele's? because of the AoE? Venom20 20:02, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
Effectively, yes. A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 12:46, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
Mesmers are the next generation of AoE nukers: CoF, CoP, this with some other signets...--TalkpageEl_Nazgir 13:46, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
So you are bitter about mesmers now because they do AoE? You are aware that most professions have skills that deal damage to many players in an area. You can continue to use your ele, the mesmers will continue to interrupt you and cause you to get frustrated; now they do damage while they do it. Venom20 13:52, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
The main problem is that in HM, most ele skills hardly deal any damage because of the monster's high armour. Mesmer nuke-spells don't care about armour.--TalkpageEl_Nazgir 14:07, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
^ My ele only uses Ray to deal damage (and a Hammer, but it's not that effective). --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 14:23, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not bitter; I find Elementalists boring.
I'm just pointing out that ArenaNet can't keep professions doing what they're meant to do. oh hai, I herd Necros r da healerz in this game
I don't mind multiple professions doing similar things - or the same thing different ways - but if you think Mesmers are a damage class I've no idea what game you've been playing. A F K sig 2.jpg A F K When Needed 15:37, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
TBH, mistrust is enough of an armor ignoring spike alone to make me choose mesmer as a damage dealer over an ele. Eles can be great at damage (until they come across an end-game warrior mob), but I've been playing my mes ever since the buff and the damage they can pump out with some builds is huge, with interrupts and e-denial on top. Just try out a mesmer build with CoF CoP, mistrust, chaos storm. Don't even need an elite for great damage. On topic, this is a pretty nifty skill now, I'm thinking it might be good with signet of clumsiness for double-AoE damage. Does this hit the target foe aswell? 05:28, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
No, it only damages/interrupts the foes adjacent to the target, not the target itself.
And btw, you just proved our point. Mesmer damage has become so much that elementalists have become redundant. Anything the elementalist can do now, the mesmer can do it better. --TalkpageEl_Nazgir 09:47, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
The ele has been redundant since Hard Mode, really. 118 armor is just too much to fight against in a regular setup (25% listed damage). --- VipermagiSig.JPG -- (contribs) (talk) 14:38, June 11, 2010 (UTC)