Talk: Sorrow's Furnace

This is a good example to bring up this issue. In this area (and others) there are NPCs that only pop up if you are doing a quest. I don't think these should be listed as NPCs in the area because: a) At any other time they won't be there. b) When they are there, you will know because the quest will guide you to them.

In this regard, I think the four guys from To Sorrow's Furnace should be taken out. Because if you just walk into the Furnace, you won't find them.

A trickier issue though, is NPCs that give quests and then go. For example, Cynn and Mhenlo in the Eastern Frontier, if you do the quest, you'll never find them there again. If you don't you'll always find them. Ideas? --Karlos 16:38, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)

We could deal with it by putting in a caveat of (only appears during XXX quest) or (appears until the completion of XXX quest) or something to that effect. That's what I've been doing with quest specific monsters (see Worm Queen). --Rainith 16:52, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)

I agree. I've been doing this with some mobs, too. :) --Eightyfour-onesevenfive 18:28, 10 Sep 2005 (EST)

24.85.132.217's edit is amusing. --Fyren 14:38, 12 Sep 2005 (EST)

I took it out. It's confusing to a person going there the first time. As a person who has been there a lot, I can read it and understand it, but, quite frankly, I don't need it. I know what's it's tryin to tell me by heart. In return, the map from GameAmp is just far more useful. --Karlos 18:00, 12 Sep 2005 (EST)

It's trying to tell you all the known spawn points of over a dozen bosses, I doubt you know all that by heart. Even if you do, there's no way you could've learned it from the 'much more useful' map from GameAmp, which doesn't list a single boss location. The crude ASCII map would be quite useful to anyone looking for a specific boss, and for anyone making a better boss map.

I know the boss locations by heart from facing them so many times, I was mentioning that only to indicate that the readon the map made sense to me is that I already knew what it was trying to say.

Please turn the ASCII map into a JPG image of a map and upload it. No big deal. Instead of using notepad, use paint. But we have to adhere to a higher standard of information presentation than that here. I am sorry. --Karlos 08:37, 13 Sep 2005 (EST)

I don't see why an ugly paint map is any better than an ugly ASCII map. Especially when an ASCII map can be editid quickly online and there's a great big edit button easily visible at the top of the page, while the paint map needs to be saved, opened in an editer and then uploaded, and a casual wiki user doesn't neccessarily know how to do upload an image. I don't want to start an edit war and I don't want to upload a hideous jpeg that's much more complicated to edit, so I just put the boss locations in the entries for the individual bosses. Most of the rooms with bosses can be described relatively easily, and the ones that can't can be described in relation to those that can. It's probably more useful to list them in the articles anyway, since anyone looking for a specific boss can look it up in the article.

So, the reason we should have ugly incomprehensible stick figures is beacuse if you made a JPG it would also be ugly, harder to maintain. You forget there is a third option... Let's not have either! :) --Karlos 17:36, 14 Sep 2005 (EST)

I had already given up on crude maps, figured out a third option and updated the individual boss pages with the relevant information before I posted my previous comment.

and why not have the rights to use a decent map from one of the guy working there ? http://guildwars.gameamp.com/news/viewNews/1408.php or build it by ourselves ? i should be able to make one if you find it worthing my efforts jissai 23:51, 15 Sep 2005 (EST)

We already have a link to the GameAmp map in the warning inthe general description. --Karlos 00:37, 16 Sep 2005 (EST)

Ok, didn't see the link. So i suppose i could give up building the map too ? 163.187.176.142 17:01, 16 Sep 2005 (EST)

That is your choice. IF you feel you can do a better-looking one or a more informative one, then go ahead. You know your abilities. --Karlos 17:22, 16 Sep 2005 (EST)

Location Names

The boss locations dont seem to be completely random, and even if so, naming the locations may be a good idea: suggestion: Sorrows_location_naming

Naming the locations is a good idea if we provide a map. I like the one in the link, but we should just place numbers (or letters) on the map and then write the legen in text next to it. Text does not survive the JPG formt very well. --Karlos 23:02, 13 Sep 2005 (EST)

The Summit Slaves quest provides us with 5 names inside the Furnace. I think we should use those names whenever we can, especially there when there are no standardized naming among players (as opposed to "15k" and "Fissure" armors which there is a standard differing from official naming). For the longest time when reading the wiki I thought the Thoughtslayer guy was the dude who wants us to kill other bosses for him... Sure, ppl might not remember where Darkhaven is, but at least we got a wiki article that has better (and might still be improved upon) textual description of where that is. And if Anet ever decides to move NPCs around, we'll still be fine. I think I'm going to start editing boss location names, but honestly, half the time I really have no clue what place they are talking about ~_~""" -PanSola 16:40, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Anyways, here's my suggestion of naming (compared to the suggestion above):

"Entrance Hall" -> "Lobby" (my own preference d-: )
"Stonerfit's Room" -> "Sorrow's Belly" aka the "Belly" (nickname)
"Thoughtslayer's Room" -> "Iron Arch"
"Temple Ruins" -> "Stone Basilica"
"Soutwest Slope" -> "Darkhaven"
The region encompassing "Northern Crushers" + "Whitman's Room" + "Eastern Guard" -> the "Gap"
All the green part -> the "Forest"
"Here Be Dragons" -> the "Forge Heart" aka the "Heart".
"South End" -> the Forest entrance to the Heart.
"Eastern Guards" -> the Gap entrance to the Heart
"Northern Crushers" -> crushers by the Gap
"Below the Bridge" -> the "Bridge" (I think only the upper part is important)

Aside from "Whitman's Room", everything left unnamed are not important anyways (in terms of boss spawns and quest objectives). The only names I made up from scratch are "Bridge", "Lobby", and "Forest". I feel Lobby is a more friendly word than Entrance Hall (and it didn't feel like a hall to me), and I hope Forest is self-explanatory. Everything else is relative to names given by the game. We can still provide a map, but with this naming (and for ppl who are used to the in-game location names), just reading the text description should be clear most of the time. Aside from Whitman's room that is. Comments? -PanSola 17:13, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I think this looks good, but then I've never paid any attention to what people named the locations inside Sorrow's Furnace. --Rainith 17:33, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

This is something I have been meaning to do for Sorrow's Furnace (though I have found the Fissure and the UW far more interesting), but if you want to do it, please go ahead. I have some disagreements on some of the names, which I will list below, but overall, the one element that is lacking is the photos. Screen caps would greatly help players recognize the area. Unfortunately, I asked GameAmp for permission to use their map on our wiki (their map is poorly marked, but it is the only full-map out there) and they refused to give me permission (though they have no problem useing our skill pages as references). So, just try and get a lot of clear open shots of the defining element of each area (for example the Basilica). I'll try to help out too.

Now here are the names I disagree with:

The Heart or Forge Heart: This is the Iron Forgeman himself. The area past the guardians should be called "the Forge."
The area below the bridge (I think) is the Gap. It starts from the "cold one" crushers atop the hill and extends all the way to the furnace guardians guarding the northern entrance to the forge.
Witman's area should be called after him (Witman's Surprise) :) or something. The area next to it (to the east) with the overlook and the res shrine also has no name and no clear identifier.
The Forest should be called "The Dredge Forest" or "The Underground forest" or the "Subterranean forest" or something. There are losts of forests in the game :).

Finally, I moved this discussion to it's proper place. --Karlos 19:44, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Agree with the Forge. I don't see how your the definiton of the Gap differs from mine. If you walk from the crushers, you will have to pass Whitman's place and the shrine and the bridge before you can get under the bridge and finally to the entrance to the Forge, so I just consider the Gap to encompass them all. As for the forest, at first I considered calling it the Dredge forest too, but then there are dredges all over the place anyways (and stone summits in the forest), plus the Forest is only going to be used within the context of SF, so I felt comfortable with just calling it the Forest, being the unique forest inside SF.

Finally, I don't feel comfortable naming Witman's area after him, especially if the player's experience with GF/SF is: Get to war camp -> do Trask -> do Killary -> do High Priest -> do Orozar -> Final Assult -> roam without quests. Notice when they will find Witman? While not everyone will wait that long to roam without quests (I started doing that after failing Orozar), many people will probably be doing things the quest order (and Guild Wiki especially recommend players to do To Sorrow's Furnace, and Trask in particular, to orient themselves. Maybe just describe it as half-way between the Crushers and the Bridge at the Gap?

Oh and btw, I think the "Frozen Forest" is the only other forest in the game? You might've confused Jungle with Forest... d-: -PanSola 22:58, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

This is ancient, but I just noticed it. Anyhow, I was referring to the Burning Forest and the Forest of the Wailing Lord. --Karlos 22:15, 28 February 2006 (CST)

Hi, i'm new to furnace, so i'd like a lot a boss location map as the ring or fire one. Thx Luca 28 February 2006

SF Green Drops

Has anyone managed to get any data on green drop rate (how often greens drop/if a specific boss likes to drop one green more than his others) or if theres any anti-farming code (ie does drop rates decrease if you farm it more than once a given period)? ~courious

Unfortunately, the drop rate project is driven mostly by the interest of the participants. I find green farming very boring, so I do not go there often. If anyone here is a green farming addict, I hope they see your request and start noting down drops. Boss drops are easy to note. --Karlos 17:12, 11 March 2006 (CST)

I do enjoy green farming, alas though SF farming isnt nearly as popular anymore with the new(well not so new now, but newer than SF) tombs PvE area. Prehaps im just unlucky but it seems anyone who knows what they are doing are no longer intrested in SF. (ill spare you the PUG horror stories). Ive heard of anti-farming code in SF but not any proof of it, or how its implimented/what it does. That said id be more than happy to attempt to gather some data on this but as noted i have trouble getting a group together (any time a decent amount my guildies are on we hit the Tombs or FoW/UW). Ive checked out the builds list here, it lack a solo farm for SF, but failing that even something to cut my numbers down from the traditional 5 man would be good. If you have suggestions id be happy to try them out, ive always loved a good PvE challenge.--TypoNinja 07:25, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Skill Cap Sort

Do we have enough bosses with their skill caps to start sorting them by profession now, instead of by name? Evan The Cursed (Talk) 13:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

I took the liberty to enact the sort by profession, as I feel it is much more useful than alphabetical. Also, I think this change should be in all Location pages -- but I can't quite seem to find a formatting page for locations where this is discussed. If you feel it is better in the previous sort method, feel free to revert my edit. Evan The Cursed (Talk) 14:06, 17 March 2006 (CST)