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User talk:Dr ishmael/Archive 6

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Mover-Shaker Bot

If you check the move log (or perhaps RC, depending when you read this), you'll see that Balistic Pve is moving user's pages to their new names with the GW- prefix. I know that you could get a list of all these by looking at the contribs of the Move page script, not sure about other pages in their userspace though. Anyway, I think it'd be a lot faster to make it a bot task. One reason is the "move throttle" - the bot avoids that because it has sysop status. :p Also, it could clean up after itself by them deleting the redirects, again because it has sysop status. Lastly for bonus points, maybe it could fix all the links to those pages so that we don't add to the wanted pages unnecessarily.

I have this strange feeling that normally I should use the GW:BOT page, but oh well, I don't want to have to repeat myself in two places. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 22:42, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Well anyways, until that happens I'll keep moving them. I've tagged most of them with delete, so hop on to it. --Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 22:53, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm just a bit busy, and I'd have to check what links here and fix the links, etc. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 22:57, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
o i c , nvm --Balistic Pve (T/C/E) 23:01, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
That would be fairly difficult to set up, compared to the other bots I've done. It would have to first get the list of users that were renamed (where is that list, anyway?), then check Special:Prefixindex to get the list of all pages in their userspace, then for each page move it, update links to it, and delete the redirect. I could do it, I'm just not sure if I'd have the time or the inclination right now. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Would you do it if you had a list of pages that need to be moved? --◄mendel► 02:10, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I know that I/we ask a lot from you, so I'm sorry if it seems I'm just piling more work on you when you already have lots of other stuff to do as well. (Like RL.) But it really is appreciated. :) I think it would take about 5 days to finish it manually, since we're not even done with the A's yet. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 03:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Well, let's set priorities, then. Which would you rather be taken care of first: build redlinks or GW-userpage moves? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:17, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
To give a PHB response: Both. And while you're at it, get Griffin's permission. :) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 04:30, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Griffin? Narf? o.O —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 05:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Needs more Dilbert imo Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 06:06, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Not sure why this isn't a project (or is it?), but I've got a list of GW-users, minus the ones that have TOC entries here, and their un-GW-'d pages. Now I'm checking those for redirects. --◄mendel► 15:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
To the best of my programming ability, the pages that should be bot-moved are listed on User:Dr ishmael/GW-pages-tobemoved.txt. I recommend against deleting the redirects (like Wizboy and Entropy have done) because you never know what external links or redirects may yet exist, and it doesn't hurt to keep them. --◄mendel► 16:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Well if all we're doing now is moving, as mendel suggests, I've got a script prepared for that already. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Doing some checking before I run this, and I've discovered that for a lot of the pages listed, a GW-page already exists. Some of them are simply a redirect at one or the other location, but some of them, like User talk:Hellbringer/Archive 1 and User talk:GW-Hellbringer/Archive 1, have different content on the two pages. What do we do with them? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:57, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
Argh, I ought to write my plans down - all I checked are the move sources, not the destinations. I think we need to do those manually. --◄mendel► 17:16, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
And if the GW-page is a redirect, do we swap the pages (move the original over the redirect, and leave the redirect at the original), or leave them as-is? —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:27, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I appended the list with the possible conflicts. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 18:18, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
I'd say leave redirects as-is, because that's obviously the wish of the user, and unless the original owner of the account shows up (unlikely), it's not a problem. --◄mendel► 18:27, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
The difficulty is not to move half a userspace. I think the goal of this exercise should be to bring all of a user's pages and subpages together in one spot (the move script missed subpages). If that spot is in User: or in GW-User: doesn't matter much. --◄mendel► 18:29, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

About GW.Dat

I've read serveral posts by you stating that you have extracted gw.dat. I'm wondering if you can point me in the right direction on how to get tools on it? Because I'm thinking of helping the Chinese GW (since NCTaiwan was abondoned) to get ways to update their info. Please contact me at willy_sunny(at), or leave the info here, thanks. 05:24, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Be warned, it requires some mad haxxor skillz. --Alf's Hitman 05:34, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
May I point you here. You're not the first one to ask for a tour of the Doctor's laboratory. :) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 05:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Yep, I've explained the three tools I use at the link Entropy posted. Be aware, though, that you can't get all game data out of GW.dat or by ripping in-game textures. The only text that can easily be extracted is skill names/descriptions, item names, and some other miscellaneous stuff. Quest/mission dialogue and everything else is encoded with a method that I haven't figured out yet. The only textures that are really useful are skill icons and inventory icons, and for the latter, you have to have actually seen the item in-game - the -image option does not download inventory icons for some reason.
If you have any other questions, just ask. :) —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
I believe there is an additional compression layer in some of the gw.dat files and the icons are extracted rather than downloaded. I redownloaded a fresh gw.dat once with -image, and there was heavy hd activity when I first login and access my inventory/storage. This was also mentioned in the original gwdatbrowser thread, too bad the author lost interest after releasing it. --Evenfall 12:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Heavy HD activity could also mean that the icons are getting downloaded and saved to the .dat. --◄mendel► 16:17, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

What are you blowing up now?

I hope it doesn't result in a catastrophic failure that brings down the site. But if you DO learn how to make a catastrophic failure, you could probably get a list of sites that need to be obliterated if you asked :P --Gimmethegepgun 20:41, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, he's just fiddling with calculations for the Lucky title tracks. The template just *looks* deadly and diabolical. However if you make a few changes here and there, it will actually cause...oh, but that's a secret. :)
By the way, 1 / ∞ > 0. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 20:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, but limx→∞ 1 / x = 0 --Gimmethegepgun 20:49, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Within the confines of Wikia, yeah, it's just a harmless template to calculate the lockpicks you need to max your Treasure/Lucky titles (which only works to 8 iterations, unfortunately). Outside of Wikia and the silly "Expansion depth limits", it's... well, let's just say it's not a template you'd like to meet in an alley on a dark night. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I kinda peeked at it and my head nearly exploded from all the red error messages --Gimmethegepgun 20:51, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Cleaned it up a bit (6,085 --> 3,626 bytes), and now it works to 9 recursions. Which means you need at least 4 ranks between the two titles to start using it. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Nothing like a wacko-scientist-job well done...Ereanorsign.jpgreanor 22:01, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Now if only I could get him to vaccuum.... Jink 22:11, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
*cough*andyoucouldcleanthebathroom*cough* >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Wow, dirty loundry...Ereanorsign.jpgreanor 22:31, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Don't even get me started on the laundry.... (XD love ya, hon!) Jink 22:34, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Oh come on, I wash the laundry. :P It's the folding that never gets done. >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:37, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Hear hear! --JonTheMon 22:39, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
I prefer piles anyway Ishy.--Łô√ë Turkey!îğáturkey 22:43, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
I live out of a series of laundry baskets. 22:45, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Luckily it's not the fondling that never gets done...Ereanorsign.jpgreanor 22:57, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
... ever heard of ending your comments one sentence sooner? --Gimmethegepgun 23:29, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 23:40, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
...In america.--Łô√ë Turkey!îğáturkey 04:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
With the help of MediaWiki! This template of mine burns with an unstoppable recursion! It's consuming parser compels me to destroy Recent Changes! Prepare Yourself! My #expr, my non-breaking space, and all of my #ifexist calls! TEMPLATE OBLITERATION! GO! GO! GO! Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 04:22, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I plead the Third --Gimmethegepgun 06:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Out of the kitchen webcomic link --◄mendel► 09:59, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Mind helping me Dr Ishmael?

I was just wondering... Would you mind teaching me how to create tabs like the ones on your User Page? I'd appreciate it so much if you did! LostShadow 05:37, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

The easiest way is to just edit my page and copy it.
  1. Starting with the 8th line, which starts with a {|, copy the next 5 lines (don't copy the line that says Graagh). Also copy the last two lines, both of which look like |}
  2. Paste that into your userpage, and change the part that says {{User:Dr ishmael/Tabs2}} to {{User:LostShadow/Tabs}} (the 2 is just leftover from an older version of my page). You can add your userpage content between the two parts that you copied.
  3. Go to User:Dr ishmael/Tabs2, edit the page, and copy the whole thing to User:LostShadow/Tabs2.
  4. Edit your new tabs page and change the links to point to your userspace, i.e. replace "User:Dr ishmael/..." with "User:LostShadow/...".
  5. To change the ordering of the tabs, move everything between the |- lines (those lines denote a new table row, and each tab is a row, so you want a |- between each tab).
That should be enough to get you started. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 05:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Wow, I feel so dumb right now >.< Well, I'll try to get through that word for word! I'll tell you if it works or not, although I'm sure that it'll work ;) LostShadow 05:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Lmao, I am so sorry! I'll change everything back as fast as I can, I was editing yours instead of mine, Im sorry. I got it all saved though, >.< Changing it back right now LostShadow 05:58, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Changed it back, and once again >.< Sorry! LostShadow 05:59, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Everyone makes mistakes, especially when they're new! Don't beat yourself up over it ;) Mistakes on a wiki are easy to fix - if you go to the history page, it even gives you a handy "undo" button :) ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 09:09, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
What Wizboy said. Looks like you got it mostly figured out, though. The light-blue boxes in the main content area are created by the <div> tags - if you look at the "About me" section, you'll see the second line says <div style="..."> and the last line says </div>. You can copy those two lines into any other section to give them the light background. And in the second line where it says background:#b9e0eb;, you can edit that for any section to make it whatever color you want. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:09, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
Ahh, didn't know about that Wizboy, Thanks. And also, Ishmael, Thanks for explaining what the 'div style' things did :P. Ill look into that a bit more tommorrow. Night everyone. LostShadow 05:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey Dr, Mind explaining to me how to upload an image to GuildWiki? (i.e. a character image for a character profile page.) LostShadow 05:29, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Special:Upload - You can find this link in the toolbox on the left side of your screen - "Upload image" RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 05:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Ahh, Thanks Kali, >.< Stupid me. LostShadow 05:41, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Also, once the image is up, you can link to it by typing: [[Image:RoseOfKali_Dungeon.jpg|100px]], where the |100px stands for the width that you want it displayed as. It will turn out like this:
RoseOfKali Dungeon.jpg and you can clink on it to see the full size. If you don't specify any width, it will appear full size. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 05:38, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Sounds easy enough. Thanks Kali. Btw, Sweet armor on your necro :) LostShadow 05:59, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. :) I guess, to finish off the topic, there's another way to upload images. You can create the link first, like I explained above, with the name you want, and save or preview the page. The link will appear in red. Click on it (or open the red link in new tab, if you haven't saved the page yet), and it will ask you to upload the image in its place. If you just did preview, then you can hit preview again, and the image will appear instead of the red link, so you can save the page now knowing what it looks like. The preview way is useful if you are trying to decide on a particular width and aren't sure what it will look like ahead of time, saving you a bunch of edit entries in the history of the page, which people often call Recent Changes (RC) Spam. The preview-first is the way I usually do it. I hope this isn't too confusing, but you can ask me to explain again if it is, or just do it the way that works for you. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 06:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Ahh... I think that way will work better for me (Not really good at guessing pixel sizes :P). By the way, Do you know how to add images into a signature? I tried... Didn't work so well xD

I tried adding the Profession Assassin icon, And it just showed up like this... [[assassin-icon-small.png]] [[User:LostShadow|<font size="3" face="vivaldi" color="Black">LostShadow</font>]] [[assassin-icon-small.png]] 06:15, 29 November 2008 (UTC) Do ya know how to fix that? I am 99% sure I put the right link, But it showed up as a non-created page. Weird.

I'm not sure what the problem is, but I have one tip for you to try. We usually encourage people to create a unique image for a signature, even if you just copy an existing one and upload it with a new name. Kind of like mine, it has my name and "SIG" in its address. Also, look at all the preferences in your signature. Make sure "Raw Signature" is checked. The text in my "Custom Signature" box looks like this: [[User:RoseOfKali|RoseOfKali]] [[Image:RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg]] This creates a link to my userpage, and puts my sig image after it. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 06:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Alright, Thanks. I'll find a good picture for my sig, and link it to my user page in the morning. Gonna go to sleep now. Adios. ~~LostShadow

See Help:Signature for how to change your sig, and Help:Uploading files / Help:Displaying images for how to work with images. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 06:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


I have been reading you talk page and using the instructions that you gave to Lost Shadow for creating tabs (hope you don't mind) for my own user page as I have never edited or coded wiki and whatnot, it's been very helpful. I was wondering... do you know if there is a page where I can go which will give a list of the colours and their codes? Also I uploaded an image earlier of my derv and didn't licence it. By the looks of the history you fixed it for me, and so I would like to say 'Thank-you' :) Em Jae 01:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

For color codes, try Wikipedia:Web colors.Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 01:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Or try our very own Help:Color page (which is based on the wikipedia page, but has less WoT). :-P --◄mendel► 01:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Actually, we were both too late. Felix answerd on MJ's talkpage.Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 01:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
I see everyone else has already hooked you up with colors - I suppose that's what I get for spending time away from the wiki to decorate my house, eh? Anyway, no, I don't mind if you copy ideas from my userpage, I copied most of it from other people anyway. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:31, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

some magic for Wintersday

Mind looking at User:Entropy/Wintersday/Wiki decorations? We want to do some fairly fancy site decorations for Wintersday, and Mendel said you should be contacted. :) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 05:31, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Bah, I was busy with some "real" decorations (we put our tree together tonight). I'll leave my comments over there. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 06:35, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Me has graphic skillz too!Ereanorsign.jpgreanor 17:12, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Make us some epic icicles then <3 or a snowball. --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 17:17, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
Epic icicle from Die Hard 2 (Actually an eyecicle lol)Ereanorsign.jpgreanor 17:41, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that's fitting for Wintersday on a public wiki :P --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 19:07, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Canthan Ambassador

I think the 10k was the price to add it to the guild hall. Not sure, and can't check atm, though D: --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 20:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever seen this skill icon?


Sometimes I wonder about ANet...

Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 10:53, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, actually, that was the original icons for one of the Raven skills, which were originally Eulen (German: owl) skills. Someone extracted all the new skill names and posted them on GWO about a month before release here. Anet decided an owl form was a stupid idea, apparently, and changed it to raven, and they had all the skill icons updated except Image:Raven Blessing.jpg by the EotN Preview weekend (the two old revisions are the Owl version). —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
We could upload that here and put it in Category:Skill icons (outdated). --◄mendel► 16:20, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
An owl form would kick ass in more ways than one. Even if it had the same stats as the raven form. Which sucks. But then you could have a great joke skill template [Skills template: ORLY?] to spam at people. :) I'm also eagerly awaiting for BAMPH! to be in the game. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 01:37, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Y'know, that may be what they do after GW2 is released and they finally decide to stop adding new PvE skills and consumables. "We've made the game so bloody easy already, yet people STILL complain about it! Might as well unlock BAMPH! for everyone."
Then Linsey will say: "No, no, don't just give it to them - I've got a great idea for a quest chain they can do to get it! I can write another book and some really silly dialogue for it!" —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, whoever wrote the dialogue for the (new) books is just full of fail. I was disappointed. Still, as long as I can claim that Guild Wars promotes literacy, I'm okay.
"Dev for a Day" would be a fun event to celebrate Guild Wars' fourth anniversary. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 03:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Hm, that could work. They take a database snapshot at 11:59 PM, then at 12:01 AM, they unlock BAMPH! (and other goodies? :D ) and let everyone have fun with it for a day or two. Then, when the event's over, they roll back to the snapshot. Or heck, just open the dev server to everyone with a four-year-old account. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


The main reason is for modularization. Separation of the logic control vs the actual snowflake code. It minimizes potential for mess up when doing changes. The larger that Common.js grows, the more likely something trivially accidental will screw everything up for everyone. It also means its' very easy for individual users to see the snowflake effect on whatever page they wish (without having a full duplicate copy of the snowflake code in their personal JS). -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 03:29, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't need to be babysat in my programming, thank you. It's only temporary, and it was working fine. Now it's just more annoying for me having to go back and forth between the two pages to make changes. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:35, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
With all due respect, Doc, that was unnecessarily aggressive. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 03:55, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
It's nothing personal. I am not babysitting you. I do it to all MY code as well. It's just better general practice. And modularization IS the simpler method for allowing random user X to see the snowflaking effect on all other pages (as opposed to being restricted to what the community decide as being acceptable) via minimal modification of his personal JS without full duplication of the snowflake code. -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 03:58, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I think the gist was: "I *was* going to do it. Don't patronize me for not doing it yet". --JonTheMon 04:06, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
From Ish's edit summary ("i don't see why it had to be moved to a subpage"), I got the feeling of "Why is this being done?" "I don't get why this is being done", so I explained why I did it. I am not patronizing anybody for anything they are or are not doing, as I'm not really keeping track of who did the code initially (I only backtracked the edits far enough back to answer Entropy's question), and I was unaware that Ish (+me) would be the only people expected to modify the js.
I did something, I saw a question regarding "why?" difference in understanding, and I answered the person who asked it explained my actions to the person who did not see the point of my actions. That was all my original post was intended to be. -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 04:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Somewhat like what Jon said, it was more the way you just went and did it without bothering to look at who was working on it ("I was unaware that Ish (+me) would be the only people expected to modify the js") and giving me a chance to do it myself. You could've just said, "That should be in a subpage," and I would've done it. [edit] It was also the way you said "Here's your culprit" when explaining to Entropy why it was showing up on the project talkpage, and how both you and Entropy completely missed where I announced that. And the way Phalange just popped in and said it sucked (paraphrased). On top of that, this all happened while I was helping one of my wife's characters through the final EotN quests and couldn't say anything for myself. I guess that's what really frustrated me: had I not been playing the game this wiki's about, I could've been here on the wiki to respond to stuff.
So it wasn't just you, Pan, and I'm sorry I took my frustrations out on you. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 06:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
It's okay, Doc, you're still valuable. I mean that. I really appreciate what you've done for the Wiki (beyond the wintersday stuff, even), knowing that you're really not just a silicon mind, despite what you like to claim sometimes :) . And I have no one but myself to blame for reading posts without really reading them. Bad habit from years of RC voyeurism. :\ I did read your post, but all I took from it was "...users can easily customize..." and I was like "Oh cool!" without reading the rest. :< So if I'd bothered then we wouldn't have had this misunderstanding. I apologize. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 07:00, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
On what I consider to be a spin-off topic, to me "code-ownership" on the wiki is no different than ownership of regular articles. If I see an article that I feel should be altered to conform to certain stylistic/formatting pattern similar to how other articles are done, and if I have the time, I would edit it myself. Even had I seen you were the only one working on it, it would still not occur to me that only you are expected to be modifying it. The only time I'd bother to communicate is if beforehand I know others would disagree with the changes. The wiki editing practices had led me to consider editing things myself to be less patronizing then finding out who "did it" and get that person to "fix" it. Finding out who did what is only useful when there is obvious disagreement and communication between parties is needed to resolve the disagreement, not when a person just want to change something. Then if anyone don't understand why I made the changes, I'd explain my reasoning to those people (ideally the explanation probably should be in the edit summary, but I blindingly had thought stating what I'm doing would've sufficed).
So, had I have been given a second chance (but still ignorant of ishmael's stance/opinion of modularization), I think I still would have changed the code myself, with the difference of maybe testing the length limitation of the edit summary. -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 07:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Anyways, apologies on the "culprit" thing. That was non-obvious gray-humor. -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 07:33, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I think the problem is that you're not part of the official design team. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 07:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
That page also doesn't list the team members, and any case I would not have thought to check that page first (nor was I altering the actual design). I noticed edits to the JS in RC, went into the JS, and only visited the affected pages to check the bugs (and then noticed the actual discussion). >_<" -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 07:57, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
What if I'd been in the middle of editing it at the time? Suddenly I get an edit conflict and the code I'm working on isn't even in the same place anymore! I guess next time I should post a big "DON'T EDIT - WORK IN PROGRESS!!!" notice. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
I believe Wikipedia actually has an {{in use}} tag, at least AWB honors that if you check the appropriate checkbox. I hope very much that we don't need that here. --◄mendel► 19:46, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Additional benefits of modularization: having different code in different articles reduces potential of edit conflicts (and reduces impact of EC on Common.js), if two ppl are working on different code at the same time. Though with GuildWiki we don't really have many active js in development/adjustment for this benefit to count much d-: -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 19:51, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Wintersday Userbox!

To commemorate the effort you've put into preparing GuildWiki for our Wintersday celebration, I have created a special userbox at Template:User Wintersday:

Gwwintersday.png This user helped bring Wintersday to GuildWiki!

Wear it with pride! <3 Felix Omni Signature.png 09:27, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I thought you would be interested

I registered Disco Time [move]. Having trouble designing a fitting cape, though >.> Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 09:09, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


Make your wife get on GW so she can accept the alliance invite. Felix Omni Signature.png 23:01, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Uh, she's driving home from work right now. >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 23:38, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

to your attention

Elementalist_Deldrimor_armor/Female --> Dyed --> Back --> wrong image. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 06:57, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Bring it up with Khaza'dum (where the HELL do I think I know that from? WC3?) --Gimmethegepgun 06:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Ishy was re-uploading the gallery. I think he just grabbed the wrong image. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 07:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Gimme, I hate to point this out, but Khazad Guard= *gulp* Runescape.Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 07:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, he's not on here much. :P RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 07:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
At least it's not World of Failcraft. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 07:22, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I would do it, but I'm poor, and don't have a female ele.--Łô√ë Fear.îğá†ħŕášħ 07:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I would do it, but I'm poor, and I know an ugly thing when I see it. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 08:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to whoever noticed that, it's fixed. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:23, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Also, why is the Thaumaturgic Robes image shorter in the Individual Pieces overview? Is only the first image size-restricted in the template, and the others not? Seems like it, since the Necromancer version has the chest piece image UPsized. I don't want to mess with the template, it's your domain. Fix it PLZ. I thought you'd notice that fixing the first bug, but I guess you didn't. :P RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 19:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I saw it, but didn't have time to fix it. I must've missed that one when I changed everything from 135px to x375px. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Bug template image

So anyway, what happened to it? Every bug template displays a text link to the Bug.png image instead of the actual image, and there's no way to track down the picture. O_o All I keep getting are redirects and text on whatever I click. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 23:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

It's working fine for me. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 23:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes the wiki bugs out on stuff like that. Do a purge-refresh, and if that doesn't work wait a few hours. It will fix itself.Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 23:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Yep, that's a cache problem, either on Wikia's caches or your browser cache. Purging can sometimes fix it if it's an issuewith Wikia's front-end cache, and a force-refresh in your browser can fix it if it's on your end. If neither of those work, then it's a Wikia back-end cache issue, and you'll just have to wait it out. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 00:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
It's been like that for like a week for me. How do I purge? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 04:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
?action=purge <-- add to the end of the URL. Or add this to your js file to get a "purge" tab on every page. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Meh. Ctrl+F5 fixed it... RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.jpg 19:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

list of unattributed images

The list here is outdated, the last current dump is of Dec 3rd, so I am hoping a new one will be out within the next 24 hours. Shall I extract the list, or do you want the awk scripts to do it, or (third option) would you rather keep relying on the special page? --◄mendel► 18:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Using the special page lets me keep the list at a manageable length, although I could just cull sections from your master list, too. Go ahead and update it if you want to. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:12, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Updated. --◄mendel► 01:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Image:No Steam Bug.jpg‎, Image:Overlapping.jpg‎

Your bot marks MediaWiki screenshots as Guild Wars screenshots. Might want to fix that =). Cress Arvein Cress sig.JPG 04:11, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

No, I did that intentionally. Screenshots of the wiki that include GW images have to have both license templates, it's been done before. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 14:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


Not a wiki error; IcyFiftyFive created that page like you would create any other page rather than by uploading the image. --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 19:53, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, well then. Still, no image, no need for page. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

reversion on hunger and abyssal

I had not really considered the impact of a larger image. Thank you for telling me. I made the mistake of not really checking the image size, and while many may have faster connections some do not. So long story short I reverted them to the much smaller images, or rather am reverting them. I would still like to keep them hosted here I will put them on my page so that anyone can use them for art or whatever. Oh, and thank you for fixing that on the baby pic much appreciated. Spikeicon.pngTenetke Mekko 17:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Something I just thought of, you could do something similar to the High-resolution skill icons and start a gallery of high-quality, background-less monster images. I'm sure someone out there can come up with creative ways to make use of them.
Mendel seems to be pretty well-read on copyright issues, so he can probably improve on what I did for the baby picture, but you're welcome anyway. :) —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Doesn't GWW have such images for...everything...already? I wouldn't mind putting them in a separate gallery, but like the Doctor, I prefer to see the creatures as they actually would look in-game. (Besides, images like this are just too good.) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 19:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
For many things, yes, they have official renders by Emily Diehl, which we were denied permission to use here. There are also some created by users, like I just found some by AntiLamer. There's just something a bit... antiseptic? clinical? about the white-background renders/photoshops, which is why I don't like browsing monster info on GWW. Like you, I prefer the liveliness and ambiance you get with actual in-game images. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I guess you just get used to the text book look of things. I spend a fair amount of time looking at different diagrams that way so it sort of seems natural to me. I will keep my own gallery of them just because I like looking at them. I like that image btw that you posted entropy. Spikeicon.pngTenetke Mekko 19:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

When your witchcraft and/or sorcery and/or apocalyptic plans are done...

What will we really see with that snow thing anyway? :P --Gimmethegepgun 21:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

This, but with prettier snowflakes. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
lol on that page one of the snowflakes links to just plain for some reason. Just one. OOH PRETTY SNOWFLAKES! And ZOMG awesomesauce snowflakes! --Gimmethegepgun 21:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I saw that and edited the link out. Pretty sneaky of them. And WOW, I never knew frozen water could take on so many different crystal forms. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Neither did I, and was gonna make a comment about silly editors making snowflakes that DIDN'T have 6 sides for those flakes you got, so I went to wiki and found that article, which kinda killed my criticism there :P --Gimmethegepgun 21:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

new users

Is there a way to detect a newly-registered users and post a default message on their talk telling them about the basic rules, like signature images, the tilde signing of posts, and some Help reference links that we already have? If that already exists, can I see it? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 21:43, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Ooh, ooh, and can something like this be done for IP's? Like when they make an edit as an IP, can they be redirected to a rules/help links page? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 21:44, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Welcome templates are baed D: --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 21:47, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't think we have ever had User creation log installed. Also, welcome templates are baed D: Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 21:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Why is a welcome template bad? What's wrong with giving new users some links to important stuff like policies and FAQs? If it lowers the amount of time I have to spend telling people to use descriptive image names or select the right licensing option or not to use a skill icon as their sig icon, I don't see anything "baed" about it. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
When Welcome Templates Go Rogue Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 21:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
  1. Ryudo obviously has no sense of humor, otherwise he wouldn't have reacted so harshly to Eloc's mistake. Seems like he got into a few other messes, too.
  2. Raptors and Y0 are dumbasses.
I still don't see anything wrong with a generalized template that provides users with links to helpful information. Leave out any patronizing language ("I highly recommend you check out this page for n00bs"), and it should be fine. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:45, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Last sentence for truth. It's not the concept of offering help that offends me, it's the idea of forcing it on people whether they want it or not, and/or coming off as patronizing/ the general "form letter feeling". (You remember I wanted to name {{Ishmael}} to give people tips for image uploading, and Felix complained? Same concept.) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 22:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Ishy. I think a well though-out welcome message with absolutely no personal messages would be a good thing for those who just plain don't know where to look for those links or policies, or those who just haven't given it a second thought. I realize that many people will dismiss a "bot-looking" message, and those are the users who also often turn out to be trolls or vandals. But those who actually care about doing things right from the start will read it and find it informative. I know I for sure would have, considering I was banned for RV-1 without any real warning, not even knowing about the rule, or the fact that the ban was only temporary. There are many net communities out there, and the rules vary considerably, so if someone comes here from another forum, they may be in for a surprise, and I think it's our responsibility to make sure they know what's going on from the get-go. I don't think anyone will get mad at a bot posting a welcome message with links to rules or conduct and other policies and customs of this wiki. I mean, what's the point of getting mad at a bot, regardless of circumstances? It's not like an admin or another registered user posting on a talkpage saying (figuratively) "Hey, noob, check out these links," giving the new user a target for being upset. People are sensitive, and when they realize that there's a real person on the other end telling them what they did wrong or what they haven't done that they were supposed to (i.e. signatures), they take it as a personal attack, same as being called "noob" for the smallest slip. But when they get an immadiate automated listing of these rules, they just might read it without getting personal about it. I think it would save us a lot of talkpage explanations of how things work here. And I personally think that drawing attention to something with a "You have a new message on your talkpage" is much more effective than expecting a new user to look for policies on their own before they begin contributing. Again, I also think that a redirect (if possible) for IP's after a contribution would also be useful, since many users begin contributing before registration. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 23:15, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Shared and changing IPs kill the redirect idea, for the most part. --Shadowcrest 23:29, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
Make the IP's redirect every time until the user registers. If nothing else, it'll reduce the number of IP edits from registered users, and will apply every time someone uses a shared IP (like in a library or something). RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 00:13, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
"redirect for IPs after a contribution"? Do you mean redirecting the IP's page to the user's page after they register? That's not really reliable, unless someone has a non-dynamic IP (dorm rooms, company workstations, etc.), which is why some people will create those redirects (I think Entropy and Felix have both done that). Dial-up will rarely get the same IP twice, but even cable/dsl aren't guaranteed the same IP if they have to restart their modem. No, I think all we can do for IPs is encourage them to register (as if the Wikia ads weren't enough >.>), and then we can welcome them and everything. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 00:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

No, what I meant is redirect IP's after each contribution to a pre-made help page with all those useful guides that everyone has worked so hard on. Have a welcome message at the top, encouraging them to register, and then have a helpful links section following it. After the user registers, simply place a very short message with a link to that same "Welcome page" in their talk (in case they ever wanted to revisit it), and never mention it again, leaving it up to them to read it or delete it or whatever. Another option is to make an eye-catching banner at the top of IP pages, kind of like the "Have a suggestion for GuildWiki?" one, with a link to that awesomely wonderful help page, that can only be dismissed by registered users. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 01:30, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

We can do that with MediaWiki:Anonnotice (a sitenotice that only displays for anons and can't be dismissed) instead of posting a message to every IP's talkpage. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:07, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I hate welcome templates. I may have been editing template code on another wiki to help out, and I get a welcome template that basically says, "Hey newb, here's how a wiki works". I suggest the following:

  • Make a new editor FAQ that actually adresses the problems and questions new editors ask (including, maybe, a guide on how to make kickass character pages?). I started compiling stuff on GuildWiki:New User FAQ but it needs more work.
  • Make "seasoned editor FAQ" that details how GuildWiki works different than GWW, Wikipedia, and other Wikia wikis.
  • Make a really really short template that links to these two articles (if you are fairly new to wiki-editing, click here now. If you have edited other wikis before, click here to find out what's different on GuildWiki) and an option to include "I want to draw your attention especially to section xyz on the FAQ" to address any issues you may have noticed the newb having. Until these articles are done, and cleared of stuff that we may think sounds cool to have but nobody really needs (like "what is an admin", that should go on GW:AI because I have never used it again since I added it), having a welcome template can just be detrimental to our street cred as friendly wiki. --◄mendel► 02:35, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
GuildWiki:Frequently asked questions <-- —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
That FAQ needs more improvement than you already did to it; I feel it is curt to the point of being unfriendly, the section titles don't help navigating it quickly, and the precious first spot at the top is wasted on people who made an account to edit here. --◄mendel► 03:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Then improve it already. Sometimes I feel like I'm expected to do everything around here. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
No, that's my job. I'm just good at outsourcing, and no one nags me if I don't get anything done... Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 06:00, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I agree that it is a very sensitive topic, and needs to be well thought-out. I also think that it is necessary to draw the attention of new users to our rules and help topics. Mendel's idea of having a short template that links to a "new user FAQ" and "seasoned user FAQ" or something along those lines sounds good. I still think that the Anonnotice thing that Ishy pointed out could be effectively used to provide a quick link for new users. One short sentence with a link is enough, but it's there for them to see and use if they so decide. No need to boss anyone around with noob rants, and it should be small enough that even the lazy "seasoned" users who don't bother to sign in will not be too annoyed by it. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 02:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

RC finagling

Hey, I made some changes to my css that makes the RC box look like normal. Just letting you know.--JonTheMon 00:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Mine are better. :) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 01:04, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Have you opened the Namespace drop-down? For me, your settings make all the options appear side-by-side in a single row. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:10, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Huh, I get the same thing with Entropy's css, too. Must be something in how the WebDev extension applies css to an already-rendered page. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
That's because you're using FireFox. It works perfectly on IE. Jajaja. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 02:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Looks fine to me on Chrome. --JonTheMon 13:54, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
Weird, it's actually Firefox doing that. Meh, I don't mind the default appearance - I actually like the border, it sets that stuff off from the actual RC listing. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info about updates

Thanks, I just didn't want to break anything. I will look at your edit though and figure out what I was doing wrong. Thanks again Spikeicon.pngTenetke Mekko 15:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

You didn't do anything wrong, the edit you made was correct. There was one thing you simply didn't do, that was to rotate the inclusions the same way you rotated the links. Seriously, stop beating yourself up so much. :P —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 15:53, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Better watch out

javascript:var li, liUser = document.evaluate( '//div[@id="bodyContent"]//li[ a[4]/@title = "User:Dr ishmael" ]', document, null, XPathResult.UNORDERED_NODE_ITERATOR_TYPE, null ); var remove = new Array(); while ( li = liUser.iterateNext() ) { remove.push( li ) } for ( var i = 0; i < remove.length; i++ ) { remove[i].parentNode.removeChild( remove[i] ); } void(0);

This will hide you from my RC. I've now made it my lifelong goal to convert this into a useable .js function. :p Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 04:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

=O I is scared. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 05:12, 17 December 2008 (UTC)


I just want to say that I truly appreciate all the work you've done for the Wintersday decorations, on top of all the other projects you manage to juggle. I know that sometimes you feel like you're expected to do everything around here, and it's true that there are a lot of implied demands. (Which is probably my fault.) A few of us could work a bit harder, too...*eyes self*. Still, I want it to be clear that I don't have any sorts of expectations for you: you've done an incredible amount of work since being sysopped, going far above and beyond the call of duty so to speak. I think you're well deserving of a break and no one would begrudge you that. ;) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 19:02, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. ^_^ I know it's not as bad as I make it sound, I just get a bit emotional/melodramatic sometimes. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Something you need to do...

Take a break and have a Merry Christmas. :) Sorry, I couldn't help myself after the above. And it's true, you're one of the people who keeps this site afloat. Thanks! RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:28, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

<--Click the arrow... for you :) -> you should get a pink one ;) RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:35, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
O_O NUUUU!!! Someone is challenging my chickeny domination! I must destroy them... I'll tell Pedro they're making the chickens kill bunnies as part of their training. >:D (srsly, wish I'd thought of that first... >.>) —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:40, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Jingle Bear

Did you add back "Miniature Polar Bear and" just now on purpose, or was that an accident? Because the Mini Polar Bear IS of Ursula the White, so obviously they'd look the same. Felix Omni Signature.png 01:51, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Accident - I took it back out when I fixed up the description. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:52, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Jolly good. Felix Omni Signature.png 01:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Palm Strike Note

→ Moved to Talk:Palm Strike#Note about not requiring lead attack

Affect Effect

God how did I miss that. Thank you for fixing it, sometimes I just want to slap myself. Spikeicon.pngTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 21:12, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

No problem. That's one of the most common mix-ups I see, actually. Darn this silly English language. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm still correcting my mom on hare, her, hair, heir, here, hear, ear, air... It's all just an "err..." type sound to her. >_< RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 22:07, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


Pokes. Jink 16:09, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Skills (Saul D'Alesio)

Have you found that they are actually separate skills, for some reason? Because they act just like the normal skill would at the attribute rank Saul has in the linked attribute, so I would assume that they're... well... just the normal skill.Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 05:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

By the way, this applies to all the BMP skills. I can see not one shred of evidence it isn't the normal skill on your skillbar, activated with the modified rank you get with your disguise. And even if they are different, is it really needed to separate them when they work identically?Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 05:57, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
The sure way to tell is to see if any of them were subject to the nerfbat, and compare if the BMP skills changed as well. In that case, they can be treated as the exact same skills that the players use. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 06:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes, they are different skills (check my skill index, these are at ~2680), meaning they don't necessarily get updated when the normal skill is updated (like Shared Burden (Gwen) still has the old functionality that only slows movement). —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 06:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, there's the shred of evidence. :) I'm kind of wondering why they made them separate. Is it just so that the BMP missions are unaffected by future PvE skill changes? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 06:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC)


Heyo, I was thinking of starting a lil project on the wiki to add a category to weapons based on their linked attribute because that's how I look for weapon skins I like, and it takes a pretty long time right now, but I figured I should probably ask for permission before I started anything that big. Could you point me in the right direction? =) Renai Mu icon.jpgRenai Mu 22:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

That's a good idea! While we do have a bunch of weapon QRs, I think categories would still be useful (not least because I could then rewrite the QRs much more simply as auto-generated DPL pages). Post this as a Suggestions and you should get some good feedback from more people. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 23:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
0.0 I wish I had remembered those were there a few hours ago, haha. So I shouldn't actually start doing this until I have permission from other people, though, right? Or unless it's approved, I suppose... I feel strange being useful. >> Renai Mu icon.jpgRenai Mu 00:31, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Usually it's a good idea to see what other people think before you do something that will potentially affect hundreds of pages. Good idea, though, I think it'll be useful, as I've browsed the other weapon QR's before, looking only for a specific attribute linked weapon skin. I had to click each potential hit and look at the weapon box to see if it matched. This is only useful for caster weapons, but it will organize A LOT of information in a new meaningful way. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 00:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I think this would be really helpful. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 01:08, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
It's not that you need to get permission or approval or anything, but it's just a good idea to get additional input from other people. You could start it on your own, get a third of the way or so, then someone else might suggest a different way of doing it that would make you go back and undo/redo everything you'd already done. Putting the project up for discussion first will hopefully bring in all those ideas before you start, so that you can get it all done right the first time. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 01:31, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Good point... I've been excited about helping, that's all. I suppose I could learn to be patient. ^^ Renai Mu icon.jpgRenai Mu 02:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) If the "attributes" parameter on the Weaponinfo templates was properly standardized, you could do the DP lists right now - and of course, run a bot to add those categories if they'd actually be necessary. However, since new weapons are added only infrequently, it makes sense to keep teh QRs as static pages and have the DPL in a subpage of the QR so the output can be copied over if needed, that'll reduce server load. --◄mendel► 06:24, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. Categories are ok, but they're just lists where you have to click on everything. Having an automatically-generated table that would maybe somehow possibly include pictures would be friggin awesome. Something along the lines of this, but normal skins by each attribute, would be fantastic. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:16, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
That's why I didn't do the staves and wands gallery, I wanted to display the attributes with that. Anyway, auto-cat templates ftw? --◄mendel► 04:08, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Appearance gallery

Do you think we can do something like this? I volunteer to do all the screenshots. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 22:27, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

This is a case where I'd argue against duplication of effort. Unless you can think of a way to expand upon the idea that would give our appearance gallery some additional value and wouldn't be monumentally time-consuming, I wouldn't bother. If you want to do it anyway, though, I won't stop you. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Gotcha. I'll think about it. If nothing else, my pics would be higher quality, the official wiki ones blow... Nothing before the New Year, anyways... [stupid #$%# polar bear >_<] RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 23:27, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I've done 100+ runs by now (87 on Takashi and ~20 on other characters that I didn't count exactly), and no bear. Tomorrow I might try the dual-running thing with my wife's account, since she'll be working. But I also got FFIV DS for Christmas (the best FF installment ever, remade in 3D), so I might give up on the bear and play that instead. >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 00:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
playing FFIV is much better than trying to get an impossible to find item IMO. Cress Arvein Cress sig.JPG 00:35, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

FFIV DS (aka Acronyms FTW)

One of the best FF installment ever (VI is my favorite; this is more of a "classic"), now sadly cheapened with bad voice acting and made even easier than it already was with new omgskills. Sorry, but if you played The Real Thing(TM), remakes like these are usually worse and serve to bring the title down in a way, and I only can justify it with the fact that it lets a new generation of gamers play some of the best games of all time. The Tales of Phantasia port comes to mind. That's not to say all ports are bad, though ... Final Fantasy I and II remake (Dawn of Souls) was quite impressive reworking, since those were NES games, and even just a solid game by itself. But since I've played many of the ports on the original SNES version in their full glory, I tend to be disappointed. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 01:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
The skills make hardly a bit of difference when the difficulty in the DS remake was increased. Cress Arvein Cress sig.JPG 02:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
From what I've played so far, Cress is right. Also, not all of the new skills are uber-powerful, most just introduce new mechanics that are now required to defeat certain revamped bosses. They're nothing like consumables in GW, if that's what you were thinking. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:24, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
I could have been more specific, such as by stating "it was a dumb change which does nothing to improve the game"; perhaps I should have used "zomg" instead to convey more sarcasm. I did not find the game to be appreciably harder, though. (Random: Was it just me, or was the GBA remake actually...easier?) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 03:27, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
It was hard to tell. :P Anyway, it's been years since I've played the original FFII US, which I played through often enough I had absolutely everything memorized, and it was based on Japan's "easy mode" version anyway, so my frame of reference for the difficulty may be a bit off. Never had the Advance version, either. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 05:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, I've got both the game itself, plus the ROM, which is based on "normal" Japanese difficulty. (I find it insulting that they don't deem us good enough gamers. Lame-ass excuse for never bringing FFV to us!) I can remember struggling early on, always feeling like I was never quite strong enough. But on the Advance version, I didn't have such troubles, and more or less breezed through everything without having to stop and actually train...It was a pretty decent port. Graphics updates, new content strictly limited to easter eggs and bonus dungeon, the "feel" of the game was the same... I suppose I will have to check out the DS one again, anyway. I'm always interested what changes in ports, even if I never actually play them - it's excellent trivia if nothing else. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 07:10, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Half of me would rather play a port like the DS version that's been significantly redesigned, so that I'm not just replaying the exact same thing I did ten years ago, and half of me would rather play the Advance version, for the nostalgia of replaying the exact same thing I did ten years ago. Ah well, I guess I've got both sides satisfied, since I got FFVI Advance last year and now I've got FFIV DS.
One thing I really like about the DS port, though, is the expanded battle interface that uses both screens - screenshot - you've got the battlefield itself on the top screen and all the status and tooltips on the bottom screen. And you can move using the touch screen instead of the d-pad, which has made my left thumb very happy while hunting for those rare monsters to fill the bestiary. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Hotkey bug

I've noticed this bug on occasion, and I've had sticky keys turned off since before I bought Guild Wars. It hasn't happened to me in ages though, and I have no idea how to reproduce it. I use the shift + number hotkey to open my chat window fairly often, instead of just pushing enter. --Macros 03:38, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

So... what's the bug? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 03:47, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Contribs is your best friend Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 03:48, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
So... sticky keys was the bug? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 04:08, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
No... I thought the bug was Sticky Keys, and Macros is saying it's not. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:49, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

User Tabs

I noticed on your user page that you have your character names/links to their pages as tabs on the left. How did you go about creating that? GunfighterJ 19:39, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

If you edit my userpage, you'll see that I have some nested tables set up, and at one point I include the subpage {{User:Dr ishmael/Tabs2}}. Just copy what I've got, create your own /Tabs page, and modify it how you like. Quite a few other people use tabs as well, some of them based off mine - this is a search results page, you can look through them for more examples and/or inspiration. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 21:51, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


Hey, I looked on wiki help and all over and I couldn't find how to do this (if it even is possible). On this page I would like to put each section into 2 columns so it doesnt take up as much space. How would I do that, or would I have to make a table? Shogankillername.jpg 18:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

A table would be the most direct way, yes. Alternatively, you can put each item into a separate <div> and make them all float:left, so that they'll "stack" horizontally and automatically wrap at the page boundary. Like so: (I replaced === headers with <h3> tags so they wouldn't screw up my TOC here)

Serpent Axe

  • Serpent Axe (Canthan).jpg (Canthan OR Tyrian)
Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Awesome, thanksShogankillername.jpg 19:31, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Moved: GW-

One of the concerns I have about deleting the moved users is going back and updating all of the redlinks it causes, since some of them have had a fairly sizable amount. I was wondering whether it would be better to leave the redirects since it seems like unnecessary work to delete them and go update all the links. If we plan on finishing the entire moved list ("A" isn't even done yet) I think we should decide now, before it grows out of hand. :\

Your thoughts? Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 02:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've only deleted (and Balistic's only been tagging) user talkpage and subpage redirects; i.e. I deleted User talk:Arashi, but not the redirect at User:Arashi. Balistic also took care of fixing links to the subpages that he moved and I deleted. 99% of user sigs link to the userpage, which redirects to the GW- userpage, from which it is trivial to find that user's GW- talkpage. Also, redlinks to the User: and User talk: namespaces aren't factored into Special:Wantedpages, so I don't see a problem with doing it this way. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 04:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't aware of that last fact, although it does seem familiar now. Nevermind, and I'll delete them first next time. Some other day perhaps, when I am extremely bored, I may go and update the links + delete the redirects anyway, since it gives me a feeling of doing something meaningful. Sort of like fixing disambig links. :p Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 05:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

comment boxes

These boxes make a talkpage look more like a webforum, except that the "fixed" info (talkpage link, sig line) shoudl be BELOW the text and the text should always be black on white or similar, i.e. in a common, readable style. But yeah, I like the "pure text with indents" style better for the discussions that tend to crop up from time to time, too. --◄mendel► 16:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

It's the lack of indents (can't follow the various threads of a busy discussion) and the fact that the "info" section is so huge (dwarfing the comment itself most of the time). If it were restricted to the Forum: namespace, that would almost make sense, but no - they've got these things all over the wiki. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
I thought I was gonna start rofling when I saw that... When did 12-yr olds take over the wiki? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:53, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Omg we should totally code those! ... things like this are always nice because they remind us all that We're Not So Bad After All. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 04:28, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
They serve a purpose because they're more social, it gives people a chance to show themselves as persons beyond a 19pixel high tidbit. So it depends on the wiki what is actually appropriate; of course you may revel in the appearance that we are much more a srs bsns concern than being social. --◄mendel► 04:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, the whole point of a wiki is not to be a forum or, as Pling once told me, "MyGuildWikiSpace"... so I can't really see the point. At the very least, I would find them disruptive and hard to follow for an actual conversation. (Could you imagine seeing these on an RfA or policy discussion?) Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 04:53, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
I got used to that style pretty quickly. Afterall, you can still quote ppl or address specific points, and on the flip-side not everyone on GuildWiki properly indents to the post they are replying to, and some folks do find newer replys interleaved between old posts extremely confusing (which our style does and FF's style doesn't do) . It's really just a cultural difference IMHO, neither style is strictly better or worse. Anyways, for anyone still interested, check out my talk template used on my talk page (scroll down to the middle), it randomizes every instance it gets used (though on reload of the same page it seems to be cached). -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 07:59, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


The same goes for you! Most likely. So; congrats :) And good luck. --- Ohaider! -- (contribs) (talk) 17:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, especially for the luck - I'm gonna need it. I haven't been exactly a "nervous wreck", but I have been bouncing here and there and everywhere (like a Gummi Bear) on the emotional spectrum and finding it very hard to concentrate on anything at work. And of course, I've had a semi-big project dropped on me over the holidays with a deadline of next Thursday. @[email protected]Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 17:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
An heir to claim the Giant Chicken Army? I tremble in fear! :O In any case I don't think the "music in womb" studies ever tested the effects of m.o.v.e. , so that would be interesting... (don't look at me that way, I'm a sciartist at heart!) So, yeah, gl/hf and such. :) And remember to pick up some pickles and ice cream on your way home from work. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 18:01, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
More like Popsicles and pizza (or steak and potatoes). :D Jink 18:06, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Emo spectrum, yeah, it's a big change that happily happens in small steps - and your intuition is a good guide to deal with those, as otherwise the human race would've died out long ago (i.e. don't overdose on guide books or good advice). You are apprehensive of the unknown even if you know it's positive. It all seems natural later - but the first time around it's like playing a game for the first time, everything is new and exciting. If you don't keep a diary yet, now would be a good time to pick up an empty book and start one. Write down your feelings and thoughts, you're never going to go through this again in your life. It is a very special time, and will remain so until the kid can talk. --◄mendel► 18:27, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Well said, Mendel. Congrats, you guys, and best of luck. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 18:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
"...until the kid can talk." ...and then you wish they wouldn't? :\ Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 19:31, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Then you send them to "school" to get "educated." Felix Omni Signature.png 19:34, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
All the cool kids are home-schooled. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 19:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Knowing my luck, the kid will start spewing out prophecies in Ancient Sumerian or something once he/she can talk. Jink 19:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Nah. If you're a good parent, you try to respect your kid as a person who can't talk before they do (and one thing I definitely recommend is teaching them some sign language), but once they do they have lost much of the helplessness that made the relationship so special: they can wipe their ass now (or, at the very least, tell you that they need it wiped), walk (and run everywhere, and stop running to need to be carried), and you can start relying some on them telling you what they want instead of you guessing quite a bit. It's still a lot of fun, mind you, but the magical closeness is diminishing from then on.
And if you want the Ancient Sumerian prophecies deal, you better make sure you talk a lot of Ancient Sumerian around the house, because else it ain't gonna happen. ;-) --◄mendel► 05:29, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I suppose it would end up being ancient Egyptian then. Jink 13:00, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Your mummy is an ancient Egyptian? --◄mendel► 13:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe? Jink 15:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry about it

The worst thing that can happen is Jink dies in childbirth, the kid is retarded and you lose your job. Then the kid pushes you down a flight of stairs, and you break your legs, and you slowly starve to death to the crying of your slowly dehydrating child. =D So be happy that may not happen if your lucky!--Łô√ë Colors!îğá†ħŕášħ 06:11, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

You continue to be an eternal beacon of hope and optimism for me, Giga.
Anyway, Hitchhiker's Guide tells me to tell you, Don't Panic! Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 07:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
That is not the worst thing. If you want the worst, you need to edit in some circumstances that make the father feel terribly guilty about everything. Learning from Hitchcock is learning from life Hollywood. --◄mendel► 07:27, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes, apparently the real point of Hell was not the flames and pitchforks, but the burning guilt over whatever you did that put you there in the first place. It's like everyone goes to the same place, and they all learn the "meaning" of life, and those who led a good life are happy about it, and the bad ones feel guilty FOREVER!!! :O Don't ever do anything that will make you feel guilty afterward... RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 04:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
What if you don't feel guilty about bad acts?--Łô√ë Colors!îğá†ħŕášħ 22:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
You will eventually. If you believe in life after death, then death is what will make you regret what you did wrong in life. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 06:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
On a completely unrelated topic, we just created a chat ziggaraut.--Łô√ë Colors!îğá†ħŕášħ 06:51, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
A wut? RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 08:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Let's make a chat MOMO next. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 08:11, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, I like to think that not doing things that make you feel guilty later is a key to living a happy life in the here and now. In that sense, the ten commandments that Mose is said to have handed down are nothing but good advice. ;-) --◄mendel► 06:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Pretty much all the religions of the world are loaded to the brim with good advice for living. Some really good reading. The problems begin when they try to shove their god down my throat and condemn me to imaginary "Hell" for lack of edumacation... Baed... RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 07:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
However, what people mistake is that they think religion created those values, which is a horribly incorrect statement. If you look at pretty much ANY culture on the PLANET there's a few things that you'll see looked down upon. Namely killing people for no good reason (the society may have different standards for a good reason, but reasonless is BAD pretty much everywhere) --Gimmethegepgun 07:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes. This also relates to a large misconception about Islam. Only a very small number of people think they will get showered with virgins if they kill Americans by blowing themselves up. The rest hate them for creating a horrible reputation for Islam, which is actually a very peaceful religion. But anyway, religion, and more specifically, church of any kind is a means of crowd control. The trick is to see through it, get the good stuff out, and not get caught in the net of fanaticism. I think I'm more allergic to blind fanatics than to the layers of dust in my grandma's attic... Just makes me want to send them to "Heaven" a little sooner. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 07:52, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

signature halp

the following comment was moved from an archive and is now out of context

- How did you know?? :P I like having it though ;). also how do you sign with the blue text name? please answer--Wiki Builds Are Noob The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wiki Builds Are Noob (contribs) .

Context is Weird Al on your playlist, and WBan knows how to sign now, as evidenced by his talkpage, so everything is just fine. --◄mendel► 11:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry for bothering you

but, does this look okay now? Sorry again, and thank you for helping :-) -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 22:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep, that looks fine. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 22:43, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
thanx :-) -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 22:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
On an unrelated topic, stop writing maps backwords on my userpage... sysop bully :O -->Suicidal Tendencie Suicidal Tendencie Sig.jpg 22:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


Ah, yes the dreaded word. Anyway wasn't sure if I should let you or mendel know, but for some reason I have been experiencing segfaults while viewing the wiki lately. It only happens while viewing the wiki, so I did some looking. Appears there is an error that can happen in icecat with viewing certain images that can cause it. No idea if that is what it is or not I haven't run a trap on it yet. Just wondering if any images on the main page or advert images have changed recently. I doubt it is the wiki, but I just thought I would ask. Spikeicon.pngTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 22:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

It is necessary to know which skin you are using, and what ads are displayed. The ad images change regularly (beyond our editorial control), and anyway the wiki is said to be spewing javascript erros if you do turn the console on. In other words, I'm not reall ysurprised, but if there images that try to exploit buffer overflow vulnerabilities in the image processing code I'd be worried. --◄mendel► 23:01, 16 January 2009 (UTC)


Four times over two articles is "isolated?" Felix Omni Signature.png 20:54, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


→ Moved to User talk:The Dark Enemy#Image naming

put your admin hat on

Please have a look at User_talk:Auron_of_Neon, if you haven't already. --◄mendel► 15:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Bah, I left for work immediately after my post on Entropy's talkpage. >.> I was also staying out of it on purpose - since everyone knows I'm extremely biased against Auron, my opinion there probably wouldn't have been seen as impartial. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 16:07, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, only if it confirms my decision, so thank you. ;-) Now I'm in suspense what Entropy's going to say... :-O --◄mendel► 21:57, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

undo text

I replied to your concerns on MediaWiki talk:Undo-summary yesterday. I would really like to push this quickly, so should I await a reply of yours, or can I go ahead? --◄mendel► 22:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

A question about extracting an in-game model

Image:Eternal Skillz.jpg was nicely done. I was wondering how difficult it is to do something like that, and HOW to actually do it. Maybe I could replicate it for all the other trophies that I uploaded. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 01:47, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know anything about extracting models, all I do is textures. There probably are programs around that can do it, though. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 02:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I see. I'll look around. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 02:16, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
White out all the surrounding textures with Texmod. I know, you don't do texmod, Rose, but maybe someone else does. --◄mendel► 03:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

mini ox icon

Is there any way you could make it look like the other two celestial mini icons, with the black back-glow thingy? Otherwise it's pretty much invisible on any kid of light colored background, including white, and especially the yellow on the mini page. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 18:58, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Er... >.> —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:46, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Ahhahhah, sorry, I r blind. :P RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 21:24, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey bro

Isn't this covered by 'See the article "Create" for a listing of methods of creating a creature (for example, it includes animating undead minions).'? I don't see why EVAS gets a special mention bro. If you want to say it triggers twice bro you should be more specific and merge it with the note about the minions bro. No distinguishing features 23:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree- the other notes are for clarification purposes, but the Vanguard Assassin note seems redundant. --Shadowcrest 23:55, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Re EVAS: "Because it is summoned at the location of the target, this skill combines well with Explosive Growth." It's better because it always targets the Ex.Growth on a living enemy. --◄mendel► 07:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Trivial Pursuits (re: Mesmer Page)

(Not sure if this should really go here, but it's more a PM than a discussion about the page.)

  1. Thank you for fixing my links - I thought I had rechecked them, but find myself slipping into old habits of non-wiki syntax. I also didn't know about the wikipedia: prefix trick, so I'll use that going forward. And I'll check the links by actually following least until they work consistently.
  2. I do want to ask you about your rephrase of the Poe bit: I deliberately phrased it in the active voice and your edit put it into the passive voice. I admit to a consistent prejudice against passive voice 95% of the time, so, it a preferred style/consistency for wikia or gw-wikia? or was there something else? I want to be a contributor for good, not for evil...your thoughts would be appreciated.
  3. Finally, a meta-comment: is there a better way to PM people here? Is this the right place for this type of thing? (either or both of #1 thanks or #2 active vs passive). Again, please steer me in the right direction. Thanks. --Tennessee Ernie Ford 02:13, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
TEFord, if I had questions about editing concerns, I would always use the wiki, because then other editors can profit from seeing my thoughts, and any conclusions I arrive at that affect my editing become transparent. In other words, you did right by posting here.
When I have some really private matters (declarations of love or personal criticism), I usually email the person via the link in the sidebar, but I think you have to set up an email address for yourself for that to work. Some people also have left means to contact them on their userpage (for example, you could whisper them in-game if you know their characters), and all the sysops have left contact info on GW:AI.
There is no style guide that proscribes active or passive voice. Your note is about the story, not about the author, so making the story the grammatical subject of the sentence "fits" better. However, I don't understand how the story connects to GW mesmers - perhaps you could explain on Talk:Mesmer? --◄mendel► 07:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Doc Ish: Thanks - very helpful. (And again, thanks for fixing my links.)
Mendel: in theory, my note was meant to be about Mesmerist (and not directly about story or author) - so, I take your point about focusing the subject of the sentence better. (Better would have been, a mesmerist hypnotizes someone at the point of death in a story by EAP...)
I concede that not everyone finds it interesting; in short, I am good with your edit.--Tennessee Ernie Ford 19:40, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
declarations of love Now that is just funny. I am not sure why, but damn it made me laugh for a good 5 minutes. Spikeicon.pngTenetke MekkoMy Talk Page 05:15, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

0...8 for title track skills

It seems like you are the creator of Template:Progression10, as well as the one who updated the PvE skills to use it. I know this was an old discussion somewhere, but I can't find it, so I thought I'd just ask you again: why do we use 0...8 instead of 0...10? We have a solid rationale for 0...12 on normal skills, but 0...8 doesn't seem to make much sense, other than that's what the game displays as the min-max (iirc). It's been brought to question recently (on my talkpage, and on Template talk:Necrosis), so some input on the official reasoning would be appreciated. Thanks. Entropy Sig.jpg (T/C) 02:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

The equivalency between normal and 10-rank title skills is 0=0 and 15=10, thus 12=8. Since we use 0...12 on normal skills, we use 0...8 on 10-rank title skills. K/L skills are 12-rank and use 0...10, and Lightbringer Signet is a special case.
The reason we use 0...12 on normal skills is because 12 is the max attribute you can get with only attribute points, and 0...12 is also what gets displayed in the "Skill unlocked!" box. 0...15 is what the official update notes use, because those are the two points that are used internally by the game engine to calculate everything else. There have been discussions about switching to 0...15 or 0...12...15, but most people have agreed that there's not really anything special about 15, so we've stuck to 0...12. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 03:23, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Did the equivalency between 0=0 and 15=10 and 12=8 come from using Signet of Illusions? --JonTheMon 04:50, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
It's the non-linear number progression. Like, Heart of the Norn goes 60->63->70, so if you convert the 0...10 into 0...15, it becomes linear when you consider rounding. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 04:54, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


is there a particular reason why we wouldn't keep them around as redirects? These past few years we've switched to a more liberal redirect policy IIRC. -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 18:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and I've tried to fight against it the whole way. Even though we don't have to worry about hosting costs etc. anymore, redundancy like this is still wasteful. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 19:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I thought part of the argument was that having those redirects SAVES server processing power, and thus is less wasteful (space being cheaper than CPU cycles). Now, I'm not suggesting we go around and create all the redirects we can think of, but if something already exists, not deleting it saves spaces in the logs (everything can be undeleted, so deletion doesn't actually save space either). -User:PanSola (talk to the Follower of Lyssa.png) 19:52, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I was trying to avoid discussions of CPU/storage/etc. by what I said above, "we don't have to worry about hosting costs etc.", because I was thinking more about maintenance-related stuff. If you move a page that has redirects pointing to it, it's a lot easier to update the redirects if there's only, say, 12 instead of 24. Of course, MW can now do that automatically now for full page moves, but if you only move a specific part of a page that the redirects were pointing to, it's still an issue. Another issue could be if someone decides that a certain redirect should point somewhere else (like Wyvern armor pointing to Warrior Wyvern armor instead of Insignia) - you might update one of them ("Wyvern armor") and forget the other ("Wyvern Armor"), if you even realize that it exists. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken.gif 20:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
"What links here?" is a useful thing to have... RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 21:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Bat'leth robbery

What's sad is that I live in that city, and work a few blocks from that 7/11... It's creepy sometimes when you realize that you are surrounded by complete morons. :P In the paper they said that they actually had to show the police officer a picture of this thing on the internet, and they still haven't found the guy. RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 19:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Hax! The store he didn't rob is the one that's just a few blocks from my house.Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 05:39, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
And, in other other news, both clerks falsely recognized the weapon, as it was evidently not a bat'leth. In unrelated other news, you need an archive BAD.Entrea SumataeEntrea [Talk] 05:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Small world... O_O Big talkpage... RoseOfKali RoseOfKaliSIG.png 09:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)