Talk: Epinephrine3938

Welcome back!

Nice to see you here again (-: Has there been new results from pet research yet? or still in-progress? -PanSola 15:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Is this where I respond? Good to be back, Christmas was busy, but no, my guild has been hard to round up over the holidays, so no new info really - hoping to get them together soon. If you can get 4 people together in your guild to do a test run I can probably get 4 together to test the balanced stance stuff; the issue with trying to do it in-guild is that we need to get 8 online, swap 4 to our secondary guild (or happen to have 4 people with second accounts on) and do a challenge GvG unrated with ourselves - harder to do than it should be. I recently posted in our guild forums trying to get interest up in doing the test, and had a few offers, so hopefully soon. The experience research is tough to decipher as well - it looks like about double our rate, but if so, why don't they pass us? I suspect that they don't gain ANY experience once they hit our level. People in pre-searing often have their Melandru's Stalker gain a level despite being above their level, so I want to see if that's possible post searing (easily tested with a level 1 ranger + stalker going post and killing some foes) and then I want to test if it gains any experience once I hit the pet's level - I should catch up as the pet will gain less per enemy being a higher level than I am. Provided I don't take any quest experience the pet should continue to level faster than me, but when I hit the pet's level (as I am bound to eventually) will I suddenly pass it? If so it shows a strange pet switch in experience. Interesting stuff. And how are you doing? --Epinephrine 10:44, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Hehe coolness. Well when Ch2 comes out testing stuff should be much easier, if those guild practice features are all implemented (-: Unfortunately my guild won't be of much service (2-member guild with no hall). Guild Wars is about to be released in Taiwan (where I'm from), so I'm excited about that, and see of I can ralley up the fans there to do some research (still trying to establish my presence and influence among them first though) d-: -PanSola 10:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I can't wait for practice areas! That'll make so much testing a breeze! Right now to do something simple, like checking if a Power Block disabled attribute can be used for a skill subsequently stolen using inspired hex is a nightmare - it's very hard to get an enemy to Power Block an attribute line (say, domination) and also have a hex from that attribute line nearby to steal (using inspiration, which you can still do - is the new hex that you stole blocked?). --Epinephrine 12:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Epinephrine, nice to see you here again! How about adding some basic info about you to your user page, mate (including SoF pimpage)? -- 10:58, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I am not good with artistic stuff, so I was figuring I'd leave it for now... but maybe I'll get something in there. There, finished - how's that look for a basic start? I just used yours as a template :P --Epinephrine 12:07, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Rip-off! Copyright violation! I'll sue you, bastard! ;) --

11:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Hey Epinephrine. I'd just thought I'd mention that you've mispelt adrenaline as epinephrine in your username! How embarrasing! :P I'm a pharmacologist, from the UK, so I get (not very) wound up about these things. Damn Americans with your epinephrine/etiology/etc! :P Shandy 11:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Lol, I've pretty much always read it as epinephrine; here (in Canada) adrenaline is more a common term for it, more particularly in its hormonal role rather than as a neurotransmitter; coming from a neuroscience background I was more exposed to "epinephrine" than "adrenaline", though strangely the systems are referred to as adrenergic... science vocabulary is so involved. I settled on the name partly because it is easier to shorten, and "Epi" suits me well, given my interest (and imminent involvement in ) epidemiology :)--Epinephrine 11:15, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Offcourse, I didn't expect anything less then a full biography on your page. Good job amigo. Your guildie,

Makk.

How to revert

Basically, click on the "history" of the article, find the first unvandalised version of the article, and then click on its timestamp in the history list. This will take you to the unvandalised version. Then click "edit" at the top, and then save with no edits. This will replace the current vandalised copy with the unvandalised historical version. (Admins have a button that does it all in one step, but they are not always around, unfortunately.) HTH. — Stabber 05:54, 24 February 2006 (CST)

Oh, thanks - that'll be handy. Should we then note who vandalised it, or something? BTW, I notice the vandal is going after your pages now as well as Scourge Healing again.--Epinephrine 05:56, 24 February 2006 (CST)

Yeah, he's crying for a permanent ban. I'll just back off until Rainith or someone smites him good. Yay internet! — Stabber 05:57, 24 February 2006 (CST)

To request that someone be banned put {{Ban|reason|[[article]]}}, where reason is the reason to ban them and [[article]] is one of the articles that the person edited. For example {{Ban|Vandalism|[[Scourge Healing]]}} --Rainith 06:19, 24 February 2006 (CST)

Black Bear charming

I added notes to the Black Bear article based on what you posted in the talk page about charming them in Pre-Sear. Could you look them over as you are the one who actually did this and may be able to flesh out what I put there? Thanks, and good work on getting that info in the first place. --Rainith 03:22, 18 March 2006 (CST)

Looks about right. In my case the bear didn't repeatedly use the Breaking Charm, it tried once, and took off after the bait player who was still running away from me, but other people have observed the bear sit an repeatedly try to break, so I altered the sentence slightly.--Epinephrine 03:41, 18 March 2006 (CST)

I wonder -- Can it be done with Orion Elek as bait? — Stabber 00:21, 21 March 2006 (CST)

Pet Aggro Model

Hey, man! Just noticed you are the dude who did the pet guide on Guru. Awesome job, I use it quite often, very useful. I started out GW as a beastmaster. I still like to play that in RA somtimes. Ppl underestimate the power they have, my BM PvP build got voted unfavoured. They have huge tactical advantages though. Not sure how good they work outside of RA, but in there they sure are good. I wrote a Pet Aggro Model that describes, to a degree, how the pet aggro works. I havn't worked on it in a while, but I thought you might want to take a look at it. Because you can use pet AI to immediatly reach ppl way out of reach of your team, I like them for RA. The typical RA team that stops your run for a glad point tend to be the slightly organized ones that force standoffs or hold formation. The pet puts an end to that since you can it can reach a monk or caster without overextension. Anyway, awesome job. I also see you are a research scientist? I'm going to school to be a professor of sociology. I like research science too. That is why I really like GW and the wiki, kind of a little like research science, to a degree at least.--Windjammer 19:54, 9 January 2007 (CST)

Thanks, glad you like the guide. Yes, I studied neuroscience, though now I'm in health policy doing research on indicators and determinants of health. Pet builds are somewhat underappreciated, but in part because the AI is so bad, and the pets are implemented poorly - how can a pet with a base speed 20% higher than a person using a run boost on top of that hit as infrequently as a pet does when pursuing a foe? It's got some fault where the pet seems to need to stop running to hit, and thus seldom gets attacks on moving foes. Add that to the fact that it's easy to lure a pet away from the owner, into lava, into traps, wards and so on and you get a pretty poor weapon in a lot of ways. Yes, there are advantages as well, thankfully. You study sociology? I did an undergraduate degree in psychology and took social psych, but that's about as close as I got to sociology - not something I know a lot about. Ask me about synaptic vesicle membrane proteins or ion channels and I can talk your ear off though :P --

~ Epinephrine 12:16, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Sig icon

I have to ask, is that the chemical structure for Epinephrine? --Rainith 15:36, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Yes, it is! It's a little hard to make out, but you can see the catechol ring with a side chain (I think the conformation is actually wrong, it shows the two -OH groups pointing away from each other, but really the hyrogen on one hydroxyl group will be attracted to the electron-pairs and more electronegative oxygen of the other hydroxyl group...) --

~ Epinephrine 15:44, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Build:P/W ToF Tank

Thanks for catching that - I only looked at the most recent edit, and hadn't gone through history to see it had previously gone unfavored. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:00, 10 January 2007 (CST)

Build:A/E Shadowflame Assassin

I understand the vote, but in testing it works great. if you have not actually tested please reconsider. The energy is tight but the spikes are worth it, i WILL be reconsiddering the attributes to see if something else will work better but the 100 Armor Ignoring is alot more effective than it sounds in RA/CM/AB's. (which is the main area this build is made for)--Midnight08 (talk|contribs) 09:21, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Midnight, I really am trying to be fair here, if you would like I can roll one and test it; I've tried assassins many times though, and though I do like Impale and the signets (why not impale, anyway? I know it's 5 energy instead of 0, but it's only conditional on having landed your dual attack - if they've cured the poison it still goes off, and it's a faster activation and recharges faster) the attribute points don't do it for me. Granted, Dagger damage isn't huge, but with 9 Dagger and 6 critical strikes you deal an average damage (including criticals) of 15 per dagger hit versus AL60. You also miss the extra energy from critical strikes (you would get more at 8 CS). From this PoV hitting with your 2 attack chain does 45.7 damage, 36 fire damage from the Conjure, Burning, Poison, a Deep Wound and the 100 damage from the signet. So 10 degen (if you keep hitting to keep burning up), 180 damage and a deep wound.

Using the elite Shadow Prison as a cover for Rodgort is suspect to me; in the areas you mention hex removal is uncommon, and Shadow Prison is a hefty way to cover - I'd be fine with a different Elite frankly. Siphon Speed is probably as good or better, as it can be used frequently and can help you kite (as you mention) while things recharge - Shadoow Prison doesn't do much that way, and you aren't exactly surprising folks when you lead with Mark of Rodgort, so the teleport isn't a big effect.

Let's say you go with 12 dagger (9+2+1 for example), 8 (7+1) critical (getting the extra energy per critical hit) and 6+1 shadow - leaving 12 for fire. Stick spare points in Deadly for Siphon Speed if desired, or add energy management via Black Lotus Strike. You could still use Mark of Rodgort to start the chain, you get the 10 degen from the burn, you do 5 more conjure flame damge per hit, 5 more base damage per hit (from higher dagger mastery), a bit more from the special attacks (not much, another 6 points or so between the 2 attacks) but you also have more health, or take a rune and shift stuff some. The extra damage pressure is 10 per regular attack (adds up really) plus more frequent dual attacks, you deal about 36 more damage on the spike, and you have your elite free for a nice fire spell - you may laugh, but stick Star Burst or something in for damage; it recharges twice as fast, activates faster and does pretty similar damage to the Signet (91 at this investment); it doesn't ignore armour, but it's not a bad choice really for a follow-up on a spike, and if enemies are grouped up (for example, spirits) you get AoE for a little more energy. Such a build exerts much more pressure by adding 10 more damage a hit, has a more useable, less conditional after-spike skill (activating faster too), manages energy slightly better and so on. It's a bit different, but it has the same degen, added damage pressure and a decent spike. Man, I spend too much time justifying myself :P --

~ Epinephrine 10:01, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Not justification... discussion... stuff like this i love, it helps consider new things... gimmie a sec to take it all in and decide what to do and what to change, and TYVM for the reply. --Midnight08

(talk|contribs) 10:07, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Just so you know a slight bit of error in your math... the 2 attack chain hits 3 times, dealing 7-17+23 on the Black Spider Strike, and ((7-17)+14)+((7-17)+14) - thats 30-40 bor BSS and (21-31) + (21-31) for TF for a total chain of 72-100 not 45. I know this doesnt make all that big a difference, just pointing it out while i read over the rest of this. --Midnight08

(talk|contribs) 10:17, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Question... where do u get +5 added base dagger damage from? 7-17 is the rangs as long as youre above the req, i know there are mods but am having some issues deciphering the damage article. =P --Midnight08 (talk|contribs) 10:25, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Ok - the way it work is: If you meet the requirementts it uses the listed damage as the [i]base[/i]. But the base is multiplied by the attribute adjustment - for 12 in an attribute the adjustment is 1.0, so you get listed damage at 12 Dagger. The adjustmennt is 0.7711 at 9 mastery, so in fact you deal 7*0.77 to 17*0.77 damage, or about 5.4-13.1 damage. You also have a chance of critical striking; this is 13.23% or so at 9 mastery, +6% for your Critical Strikes. When you take the crtitcals into account, add 20% for customizing and 15% for the inscription it ups the average damage to about 15. The difference is that while you deal 5.4-13.1 plus a 19% crit rate, at 12 dagger and 8 CS you deal 7-17 with a 25.5% crit rate - big difference. --

~ Epinephrine 10:40, 12 January 2007 (CST)

I actually like the star burst idea. Imma be testing the changes tonight and i apprecciate the feedback. =) --Midnight08

(talk|contribs) 10:28, 12 January 2007 (CST)

If i decide to keep Deadly Arts high i will likely adjust stats some and swap Shadow Prison for Siphon Strength (moderate recharge + cripples wars, dervs, and assasins. Also is a cover if needed and increases crits vs the target (tho will have to also adjust for 8 CS for the added crit energy in that case...) its friday, i'll be testing a few things after work =P--Midnight08

(talk|contribs) 10:33, 12 January 2007 (CST)

By the way, I use this build sometimes for fun - people laugh at it until it spikes. It might even be worth thinking about a way to do this on an assasin frame - I had a req 8 shield to use but I deleted it accidentally, if I had it back it'd be an 11/11/8 spilt probably:

Elementalist / Warrior	Attribute Rank
Axe Mastery	10
Fire Magic	11 + 1 + 3
Tactics	10

The really neat thing about this setup is that Glyph of Essence actually makes a spell instantaneous - Glyph of Sacrifice turns it into a very fast spell, but still interrupts running and can't be cast when doing other things (it interrupts attacks). Glyph of Essence however allows you to use a spell like a shout - so you can cast in mid-swing. This means that once you have adrenaline built, you can activate Clyph of Essence, run up to a softie and spike with Eviscerate and Phoenix [i]at the same time[/i]; in fact, if you time it you can have the damage numbers pop up simultaneously. The 202 damage from a close range phoenix, a deep wound and the axe hit (with +21 from Eviscerate, +21 from Conjure and a decent amount of damage) is one of the biggest spikes I've managed to make, given that it happens literally in under a quarter second - 360-390 damage in 0.25 seconds this way, I've seen a lot of "wtf" when I use it. The pressure damage is actually really good too; +21 from conjure actually puts you way up there, swinging away at about 33 DPS if they let you - and the AL isn't bad. With a +5 AL axe, +10 while enchanted armour, +16 from a shield and the near constant Watch Yourself you have 111 AL - and since you deal fire damage you actually hit a warrior for more than he hits you (he has 80+16 probably, while you have 111, possibly more if you take a + vs slashing mod on your shield). I'd post it, but people are narrow-minded, and they wouldn't catch the fact that delivering 360 damage in a heartbeat is actually pretty lethal, and instead would comment about Elementalists using axes. --

~ Epinephrine 10:34, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Reverse the professions and use executioner's strike, more dmg and faster ^^ I love that build — Skuld 10:39, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Hehe, trust you to suggest the opposite :P Why reverse them? The bonus on the spike from increasing fire damage seems to be bigger than the bonus from axe. I'll admit though, that I had to add self defense measures like Watch Yourself that a warrior wouldn't be as concerned about. You are thinking of 14+ Axe, 12 Fire? I first ran this at 12 Axe, 16 Fire, and while the spike was awesome it was just too vulnerable without a good self heal and Watch Yourself, and the shiled was better than having a focus. I suppose Executioner's in place of Flame Burst would be a feasible swap. --

~ Epinephrine 10:44, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Flameburst has extra aftercast, its not fun — Skuld 20:29, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Lol

2.85 kids? I wouldn't want to be the last 0.85. >< --Ufelder 13:22, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Hehe, don't worry, it'll be 3.0 in about 6 weeks :P --

~ Epinephrine 13:23, 12 January 2007 (CST)

Restoration Ritualist

I had a thought. What if rather than making separate builds and everything, we tried to compile Ritualist restoration builds and create something like a guide. Like use yours or mine or some version of them and then build off of it. Different skills for different situations, alternative elites (Attuned, Preservation, etc) and then worked from there. What do you think of that? Defiant Elements 22:02, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Just to explain a little further, unlike monk healers, from what I have seen on the wiki, Restoration don't differ nearly as much. They use three elites for the most part, Attuned, Preservation, and Remedy and they use many similar skills. Of course, N/Rts are very common as well, but we could even include a note about that. Essentially, what I mean is we could have three core builds, one for each elite, and then have a variant system. That way, everyone is happy, and we have a solid Restoration Ritualist page that can be expanded rather than similar builds floating around all using similar elites that differ only in a few skills. I think it makes sense, we could look over old builds, favored and unfavored, as well as our own, and just create one page that covered it all. That also decreases the clutter on the wiki and makes sure that everyones ideas (assuming they are plausible) get heard. How about that? Defiant Elements 22:08, 17 January 2007 (CST)

Excuse me for juming in here but for an example of something just like that already done for another profession see the Build:R/any General Interrupter. :) I'm 50/50 as far as my skills with a Ritualist but I love the idea of a general build for roles of a profession. You can then add a comment and link to it in the Effective ritualist guide under the "Types of Ritualist" subsection as I did for the General Interrupter on the Effective ranger guide. Good luck on this as I support this 100%. It makes the Gwiki much more encyclopedic this way by outlining the typical methods used and helps many with basic/common build patterns rather than being limiting to very unique items/skills/uses etc..--

Vallen Frostweaver 10:32, 18 January 2007 (CST)

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