Difference between revisions of "User talk:GW-Stabber"

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:::::It's a parody of something... not sure what. Aren't user pages themselves parodies of the people who make them? — [[User:Stabber|Stabber]] [[User talk:Stabber|✍]] 12:17, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
 
:::::It's a parody of something... not sure what. Aren't user pages themselves parodies of the people who make them? — [[User:Stabber|Stabber]] [[User talk:Stabber|✍]] 12:17, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
   
::::::Like the twinkling of stars in the twilight hours, and the quick rush of water down a riverbed; no. Seek the envy within. Sleep depravation = yum? [[User:Evan The Cursed|Evan The Cursed]] [[User talk:Evan The Cursed|(Talk)]] 21:58, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
+
::::::Like the twinkling of stars in the twilight hours, and the quick rush of water down a riverbed; no. Seek the envy within. Sleep depravation = yum? [[User:Evan The Cursed|Evan The Cursed]] [[User talk:Evan The Cursed|(Talk)]] 22:00, 26 April 2006 (CDT)

Revision as of 03:00, 27 April 2006

/archive 1

Welcome back

Welcome back ^^ — Skuld 00:38, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

You silly girl, you completely blew that dramatic exit! How on earth are you going to top that the next time you decide to go all suicidey on us?

PS: I can quit any time. Just watch me walk away from the wiki. Yup. Walking away as we wpeak, yes ma'am. I can so quit this, I'm confident. I have confidence in sunshine! I have confindence in rain! I have confidence that spring will come again! Besides which, you see, I have confidence in me! esan 00:42, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

I see you have skipped Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance, and gone straight to stage 6: Showtunes. — Stabber 00:45, 7 April 2006 (CDT)
Welcome back.. :) --Karlos 01:03, 7 April 2006 (CDT)
Now the wiki feels like home again. --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 07:48, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

I like your bird

Wow, Dumpling is pretty. Awesome pets really inspire me to care about my ranger again. Err, does all the gothful spikiness come preinstalled? --130.58 21:39, 9 April 2006 (CDT)

You mean the leg irons? Yeah, the bird came with them. Clearly the fauna in the Kurzick territories have evolved Gothic accessories to fit in in their hypergothic surroundings. — Stabber (talk) 21:42, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
*Snerk*. I just love animal companions that pretty much require you to blow 30k on black body armor to go with them. Here's hoping PVP rangers will get a different pet if they pick Cantha as their region of origin... Was this thing wandering around by itself? --130.58 22:20, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
I don't want to spoil it for you if you haven't encountered it already, but one of the Kurzick quests takes you to a region that has these bird(s). — Stabber (talk) 22:22, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
Wait till the farming society starts ruining it (as they ruin everything else) and start making "Black Moa Runs" for 10k. :( I cringe at the thought. --Karlos 18:37, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

About "Tools for the Guildwiki Metagame"

→ Moved to GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Builds

Category Deletions

The first 3 categories that I looked at (first 3 categories alphabetically, 2 axe ones and one bow one) seem to still have skills categorized in them. I checked the new category and I didn't see these skills in them. Could you check and make sure that Stabbot is working correctly? --Rainith 16:34, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

It is currently running. At the rate of one edit every half minute, it will take about 5 hours for it to finish all the skills. It's probably best if you can hold off on the deletions until I post the "end" time at the bottom of User:Stabbot#Log. — Stabber (talk) 16:35, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
Oh, and it's going by campaign rather than by profession, so you'll still see the prophecies and factions skills in the categories. It's about 80% finished with the core skills. — Stabber (talk) 16:37, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
Ah, ok, maybe better to hold off on marking the categories for deletion until it is done then. :) --Rainith 16:39, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
I can stop now if you want me to, but then I won't be able to get back to it until very late in the night. — Stabber (talk) 16:41, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

Response to AA Comment

I'm aware about anti-aliasing, I would have preferred that it was on when I took the pictures. However, I took them just as Guild Wars was upgrading to DirectX 9, and there was a problem where I was unable to take screenshots while Anti-Aliasing was on. I may redo them at some point (perhaps when I do the Chapter 2 items to keep things uniform), but doing it all even once was a lot of work, and it didn't bother me enough to redo them right away.

They are my own images, I took them as part of redoing our guild's (Tyrian Explorers League) weapon and armor gallery. I'm also hoping to get a gallery started on either GWO or GWG eventually. --Scutilla 18:19, 10 April 2006 (EST)

Barrage presearing

That was not me btw.. *throttles brother* I leave it logged on on all PCs/accounts Skuld Monk 12:23, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

Differences between regions

Not exactuly sure if you are interested, but since you found certain info surprising, I figure I'll point you to where others are documented: Account#Differences between each Guildwars Localization: -PanSola 20:30, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

Ah, thanks. Hadn't seen that page before. — Stabber (talk) 01:50, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Jpg Images

I'm out of the loop. Is the wiki switching to using the FSK jpg images for all skills now? If so would it be fine if I started putting redirects in the Image pages so they go to the skill once clicked on? | Chuiu 23:43, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

Yes to the first question (see, eg., GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Skills/Archive 6 for the vote on this issue), and my bot is about to do the skill icon redirects soon. Don't bother doing them by hand unless you want to invite Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. — Stabber (talk) 23:46, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
By the way, this is now done. — Stabber (talk) 01:49, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Niiice. The patchwork variation of the old image set was really starting to get on my nerves. I noticed a few minor issues: Enfeebling Blood has the wrong icon. I think a few skills, like Inferno, might be missing borders, too. Much, much better than the icons we had before, though! --130.58 01:54, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Make a note of the ones missing borders somewhere, as you notice them. They are missing borders in the FSK also. I noticed a few myself, but unfortunately failed to note them down. You can use User:Stabber/skill icons as the master list of all skills if you want to be exhaustive about it. — Stabber (talk) 01:56, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
I don't think missing borders are important, unless they are elite skills. We only care about gold borders. -PanSola 01:57, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
I would like to add the borders to all images missing them. Do I need to shrink the images so that the current image is completely in the middle of the borders, or should I just put the borders over the image? (I hope its the second one) --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 11:33, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
I am not fully sure. Rainith seems like the one to ask. From a cursory look, it seems that all FSK images, borderful or not, are 64×64, so I assume that if the border is x pixels wide, then you have to scale the image itself down to (64 - 2x)×(64 - 2x), and then add the border. But I could be wrong. — Stabber (talk) 12:05, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

E comparison.jpg Mo comparison.jpg W comparison.jpg

I did some comparisons and it seems like we would need to resize then add the border. These are resize then add border | added border. As you can see some things get cut off. I then went back and took a look at all the other skill icons in comparison to their old FSK counterparts and it seems ANET resized then added the border aswell. | Chuiu 12:33, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

I also just made some comparisons and it seems that resizing is needed. I will start my work now, but i will not upload the images yet as PanSola seems to have something against them. --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 12:36, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Don't do the resizing by hand! This border adding can be automated pretty easily using ImageMagick. The incantation is:

% convert Borderless_Image.jpg -resize 56x56 Borderless_Image_resized.jpg
% composite -compose atop -geometry +4+4 Borderless_Image_resized.jpg Optional.jpg Borderful_Image.jpg

If you give me a list of skill icons that need this borders, I can conjure up a script easily enough. — Stabber (talk) 12:42, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Some of them may still need to be done by hand. I have found many of the non-border ones actually DO have a border of 1px. So while the ones with no border can be done in that method, I don't think the ones that already have the 1px border can. Compiling the list now ... | Chuiu 12:53, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Ah complications! In that case, make two lists -- one that lists the pristine images, and the other that lists the 1-bordered images. The tweak for a script going from one case to the other is pretty minimal. — Stabber (talk) 12:55, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Arg! Some have a border of 2px also! Anet is so inconsistant! The world is ending! Overexaggeration! Working on all 3 lists (possibly 4, I bet there are some 3px somewhere...) | Chuiu 12:56, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Oh my. The list I compiled is here: Bull's Charge had an old version of the elite border. Mending has a border which is too small. The missing or 1px borders are in: Arcane Conundrum, Blinding Flash, Conjure Lightning, Energy Burn, Enfeeble, Epidemic, Fireball, Fire Storm, Flare, Gale, Heal Area, Heal Other, Holy Wrath, Ignorance, Imagined Burden, Inferno, "I Will Avenge You!", Kindle Arrows, Lava Font, Life Attunement, Lightning Orb, Live Vicariously, Plague Touch, Power Leak, Power Spike, Protective Spirit, Rend Enchantments, Resurrect, Retribution, Soul Barbs.
These are clear ones, but if there are ones with borders that are a pixel or two smaller... --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 13:01, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Well I just finished my list. It's a bit more complete also...

0 Heal Area.jpg, Heal Other.jpg, Resurrect.jpg, Retribution.jpg

1 Armor of Earth.jpg, Blinding Flash.jpg, Conjure Lightning.jpg, Fireball.jpg, Flare.jpg, Gale.jpg, Inferno.jpg, Lava Font.jpg, Lightning Orb.jpg, Energy Burn.jpg, Epidemic.jpg, Ignorance.jpg, Imagined Burden.jpg, Power Leak.jpg, Power Spike.jpg, Holy Wrath.jpg, Life Attunement.jpg, Live Vicariously.jpg, Protective Spirit.jpg, Enfeeble.jpg, Plague Touch.jpg, Rend Enchantments.jpg, Soul Barbs.jpg, Kindle Arrows.jpg, "I Will Avenge You!".jpg

2 Fire Storm.jpg, Mending.jpg, Sever Artery.jpg

| Chuiu 13:16, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Nice work. I missed the Sever Artery and didn't have the exact border widths. --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 13:36, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Thanks. I have the images converted, but MediaWiki is giving me a lot of timeouts when uploading them. Will try in ten minutes or so when the server isn't so overloaded. — Stabber (talk) 13:40, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Done! — Stabber (talk) 14:10, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Sorry to spoil this, but we all forgot one skill. Resurrection Signet --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 14:17, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Is there a FSK version of this? I couldn't find it. I just slapped on a border on the screencap image that was already there, but it looks decidedly strange with the border. — Stabber (talk) 14:21, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
I think there isn't. Maby someone could e-mail Anet about this if he/she is interested. I ain't as long as we have a bordered version which doesn't look too awfull. --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 14:25, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
The FSKs are missing the images for Resurrection Signet, Signet of Capture and Bull's Charge. --Rainith 16:08, 12 April 2006 (CDT)\
That would be why I missed SOC and Res sig. I checked through the skill images I have on my computer. | Chuiu 16:16, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

What about factions skills? The skill bar template got changed to jpg and there are a lot of red links to assasain images Skuld Monk 16:13, 12 April 2006 (CDT)


Aww, the poor widdle assassins. (I didn't change the template -- you should negotiate with PanSola if you want the skill bar template to be png for a while longer. The pngs aren't deleted yet.) — Stabber (talk) 16:18, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Augury Rock to Thirsty River discussion

I moved our discussion off Skuld's talk page and onto mine (your names really don't look that alike, I mean they both start with an S but that's about it, I'm not sure how I confused them :P ). I'm sorry we're getting into an argument on this, I got cut up the other day about being critisied on two artices that were a sentence long. It's never nice to hear someone tear down something you've worked hard on (such as that article). Anyway the discussion is now on my Talk Page so we can continue it there. --Xasxas256 04:40, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Well, I think we're at an agreeable impasse, so it's best to leave things be. I am intentionally not reading your response on your talk page because I don't trust my judgment in these matters, and I am sure to respond in a way that I'll regret later. I'll be off worrying about other areas of the wiki for now. — Stabber (talk) 04:43, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
You sound like me 5 nights ago, well I probably handled it with less grace, but the whole getting into an argument and not wanting to post I say something I regret later. Actually probably anyone who regularly edits wikis gets like this occasionally. I hate to be the one on the other side this time causing the grief, sorry to put you in a bad mood, but I'm glad we seem to be back on speaking terms again (were we on speaking terms before? maybe we've now opened a dialog, so it's an improvement! :) Should I wipe the whole thing off my user page now? I know I wouldn't be able to resist looking, particularly as my name is about to follow and it's only 2 clicks away... --Xasxas256 05:14, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Heh. Don't bother blanking it. Nothing is really erasable once it's in the wiki anyhow. Now go see about those shrimps on the barbie before a kangaroo comes by and nicks them. — Stabber (talk) 05:21, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Blimey! Kangaroos are herbivores? Shows what I know. — Stabber (talk) 05:23, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
That's why they taste so good, Australia is the only country in the world where they eat their national emblam. I've had roo before, it's actually not too bad but you don't really see it for sale in the supermarket much, I mean you see them wandering down the main road in Sydney of course though ;) Roos can get aggressive around mating season tho and they have been known to attack people now and then, a big male can do a lot of damage to a kid, but no they don't eat them :) --Xasxas256 05:34, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Sorry about putting the del notice for 84.25.40.110 on the wrong spot, I don't have to deal with repeated vandalism very often, anyway in some ways it was kinda nice to work along side you against some common evil for a few minutes. Hmmm I'll go back to reading 1984 instead of thinking that it applies to real life... --Xasxas256 09:20, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

color coded Babel boxes

At least the wikipedia babel boxes are supposed to be color coded by leve. I can only find the documentation on the chinese page (but it shouldn't be too hard to understand), at the bottom of [1]. Not to say you have to use them, but just providing them if you happen to be interested in conforming. -PanSola 20:03, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

I am aware of that color code. I specifically made mine not conform for fairly obvious reasons. — Stabber (talk) 20:08, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
The reasons are't immediately obviouse to me. Though after some moments of pondering, I come up with two possible reasons: 1. You philosophically/principally/ideologically disagree with the Babel system or color scheme used by wikipedia, so decided to make up your own; 2. you aren't actually marking languages you have knowledge of, it's all a parody. -PanSola 23:04, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
A parody?! You deeply wound me, sir. I assure you, I'm a near native speaker of Tree! — Stabber (talk) 23:07, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Whew, for a while there I was worried that I was the only one facing such scrutiny from PanSola over things that do not seem to warrant such scrutiny. I am glad it's not something directed at me, but a part of the greater world domination plan. Carry on, folks. --Karlos 04:13, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
How do you know the world domination plan isn't directed at you? -PanSola 10:38, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

Noob question

Hey how did you change your wiki font? I canna get it to work. Also answer your email you noob. esan 21:16, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

How did I change my what? You mean like User:Stabber/monobook.css? BTW I just responded to your stupid email. :P — Stabber (talk) 21:29, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Milady, if it weren't biologically impossible, I'd say you were the most cocksure person I've ever met. esan 21:38, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
Shinu tsumori ka omae? Iikagen ni shinai to na. — Stabber (talk) 21:43, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

attack skill categories

Took me a while to remember to double check it. But just like Enchantment Spells, we got Melee Attacks, Axe Attacks etc. So please move them back as well. -PanSola 10:40, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

I'm making a list of the ones I need to move back. Can you make sure that it's complete (just add the missing ones)? — Stabber (talk) 12:31, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
I'm not sure whether the "H" in Off-hand Attacks is upper or lower. Will take a better look on saturday.-PanSola 12:48, 13 April 2006 (CDT)
It was a capital in the FPE (got a screenshot if you want). — Stabber (talk) 12:51, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

mistakenly moved skillcats

Hmm, we'll need to add back in two of these it looks like. Also as I was deleting these today I came across two with the delete tag that still had skills (and in one case sub-categories) in them:
I don't want to cause more problems, so I'm not going to assume that these should stay or go without hearing from you. :) --Rainith 21:33, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
Category:Melee Attacks definitely is the correct capitalization as it appears as such in the desc of, eg., Wild Blow. Category:Dagger Attacks is not quite as certain, as I don't believe there are any dagger attacks that are not lead, off-hand, or dual attacks. As for the Category:Enchantment spells -- Stabbot was cleaning it up right as GuildWiki went on its extended lockout and downtime, and then Stabbot lost his train of thought. Will clean it up manually now. — Stabber (talk) 21:37, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
Thanks, I figured that was how each category would work out, but again, I didn't want to assume anything (that got me in trouble at work recently). ;) --Rainith 21:40, 18 April 2006 (CDT)
Should hopefully be fixed now. Sorry about the mess up. — Stabber (talk) 21:42, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

Henchman Redundancies

I have no complaints with removing the redundancies, other than those that may have a table of contents will have the TOC start below any text that lacks a header. However, for consistency, the Prophecies henchman have the same header designations, and whichever is used (keep header or remove) should likely be done for them as well as for the new Factions henchmen. --161.88.255.140 10:41, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

Henchmen articles should be NOTOC, in my opinion. Will remove the prophecies henchmen designations also. — Stabber 10:46, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
Do not remove Prophecies henchmen section vs NPC section for the ones that are found as NPCs and quest givers as well as henchment (i.e. the Fab Four). --Karlos 03:59, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
Not planning to. I haven't yet finalized my plans for torturing those articles, but rest assured that I will not leave them more confusing than they are now. — Stabber 04:01, 22 April 2006 (CDT)

HOLD all manual edits

I can understanding holding edits on the main articles. But did you meant to ask us to also hold all edits on Talk:GuildWars.com news itself? Literal interpretation says yes, but my intuition says no, so jsut want to doublecheck. -PanSola 18:08, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

No, talk pages are fine. I mainly just need the "GuidWars.com news/daynumber" pages untouched. — Stabber 18:16, 21 April 2006 (CDT)


Optional Slots

Yes, the filling of the Optional slots was necessary. I've played a bonding monk for ages, and fully supporting multiple bonds on 8 different people is near-impossible without Essence Bond, which greatly increases your MP flow. Also, Balthazar's Spirit does not grant you energy, but instead grants the person it was casted on, Energy, so I am not sure why it is there. Lastly, Life Attunement allows for a huge jump in the healing abilities of other monks, and for anyone who wishes to become a good Bonder, it is not just necessary, it is mandatory. 64.229.92.248 20:43, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

Don't tell me, write it in the article. My objection is mainly about leaving it inconsistent. — Stabber 20:57, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
By the way, if you leave the article inconsistent for a long period of time (like, say, a day), I will revert it. — Stabber 21:05, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
Was a threat implied in that statement? --64.229.92.248 21:20, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
Very much yes. Get cracking! — Stabber 21:21, 21 April 2006 (CDT)
Yes, m'lord! :P --64.229.92.248 21:22, 21 April 2006 (CDT)

'Uses campaigns skills' -template

You removed the template from the trapper team build. I understood that this should be used if the build only requires skills from one campaign. There is the large optional Factions skills table, but none of those skills are required and none of them are used in the main build. Prophecies however is a must as you can't access UW without it and you need a lot of Prophecies skills. I wanted to emphasize that this is mainly a Prophecies build, which might be improved with other campaigns' skills. If the template shouldn't be used here, I don't see any point in having the template in the first place. --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 04:24, 22 April 2006 (CDT)

You may be interested in the discussion on GuildWiki talk:Style and formatting/Builds. The prevailing opinion was that these templates are designed to be nice to people who don't buy multiple campaigns. They should not read a build article and get the subliminal message that things would be a lot better if they bought other campaigns also and linked their accounts. Maybe you disagree with this opinion (I certainly do), but it requires some more discussion. The template as it stands states something on the order of "do not link stuff from other campaigns", which is incongruous with stuff from other campaigns, obviously. — Stabber 04:27, 22 April 2006 (CDT)
Again an important discussion which I have forgotten after reading the initial comments. Now I understand the small comment at the bottom of the box and I will accept the current use of the template. However, I would like to put the template in use like explained in my initial comment. --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 04:42, 22 April 2006 (CDT)

eum..

Sorry I didn't know :) but where do I make them "legal" to post? cuz to the left something (I aint that smart ^^) plz help so I can add ingame pictures =)

Look on the left of the window in the "toolbox". You'll see a link that says Upload file (or its translation in your language). Once you upload the file, you can link to it as [[Image:File Name.jpg]], assuming the name of your image is "File Name.jpg". — Stabber 11:19, 22 April 2006 (CDT)

Attribute template

Nice work on that template! Skuld Monk 14:42, 23 April 2006 (CDT)

Thanks. — Stabber ( • 2006-04-23 19:43 UTC)

Dunes of Despair

I can see your point in removing the note below the exploit, but if people think that the exploit doesn't work we should have a note explaining that it works now, althouogh it previously didn't. --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 07:31, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

The thing it mentioned about mobs running away is a pathing bug that has existed from the very beginning of the game. You'll notice that only melee mobs run away -- you can still kill ranged and caster mobs from the ledge. The person who thought that this was a fixed exploit wasn't aware of this "feature". — Stabber  07:35, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
To be more clear -- this bug is triggered whenever you attack a melee mob who can't reach you. Another place where you'll see this is the ledge above the bridge to the Forgotten Vale in the Underworld. There are two Bladed Aatxes in longbow range, but the moment you fire an arrow at one they run all the way back to the cavern in the Labyrinth. — Stabber  07:40, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
I think we should include some kind of mention below the exploit. Would you like to do it so that it pleases everyone? --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 07:41, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Fame can be so fleeting at times

For a moment there, I had made it to the big-time! I was on an exclusive list! But now its gone, and my dedicated efforts and hardwork towards achieve the elite status of having a "user page of people who have better things to do than create elaborate user pages" is no longer recognized. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted! --161.88.255.140 11:47, 25 April 2006 (CDT)

Really, it is an honor just to be nominated. :P --Rainith 11:51, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
Sorry, didn't realize it was such a popular feature. — Stabber  11:54, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
Thanks for bringing it back - I feel so honored! I would like to thank all the people who helped me achieve this ... --161.88.255.140 12:05, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
The list is great. I have no chance to get there as I like having a cool user page and use a lot of time to perfect it, but these people really deserve the mention. By the way: Is this a parody of my list of cool user pages, a parody of something else, or just random coolnes? ;) --Gem Gem-icon-sm.png 12:09, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
It's a parody of something... not sure what. Aren't user pages themselves parodies of the people who make them? — Stabber  12:17, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
Like the twinkling of stars in the twilight hours, and the quick rush of water down a riverbed; no. Seek the envy within. Sleep depravation = yum? Evan The Cursed (Talk) 22:00, 26 April 2006 (CDT)