Talk: Community portal/Archive 19

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PvP versions of quick references

I'm starting to create PvP versions of these pages. (See User:Ender-Alacran/Quick_References). I was particularly motivated by the Binding Ritual skills quick reference page, since every single binding spirit is split to PvP (and thus the page was nearly useless for PvP.) I'll start moving/creating them in the normal namespace sometime later this week if no one objects. Anyone is obviously welcome to help create them as well, or even take over the project if they've got a faster way (like using a bot of some kind.) --Ender A 20:54, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, after looking at the code, it seems to me that it would be helpful to create "-skill name- (PvP)" pages as redirects back to the normal version for all skills that aren't split. That way, if they're split in the future, these PvP QR won't need to be sought out and updated. Plus if people mistakenly search for a pvp version of a skill that isn't split, it'll simply redirect them to the correct page. Does that sound like a good idea? Maybe I'm just edit-happy right now. :P --Ender A 21:23, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with it. I wouldn't do all of them, but just the ones that you use in your QRs. RoseOfKali 22:52, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Also, we're currently inconsistent on the "quick reference" page names. Do we want to go with "___ skills quick reference" or just "____ skills"? The former is more specific in case we need the other name for describing something more general, whereas the latter is obviously shorter. I have no preference, but I would like to make them consistent.--Ender A 00:18, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

(1) the general idea of PvP quick references sounds ok. Alternatively, you could also divide the pages into PvP and PvE versions. (2) The naming convention depends on usage. Mesmer skills fits the category better, Mesmer skills quick reference fits the comparison page best, and List of Mesmer skills makes more sense for either a similar page with no details (just the list, Ma'am) or an article with all the details.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:14, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

These will be moved into the main namespace once completed? (and clean up all the redirects left behind after all those page moves please). --Wolfie (talk|contribs) 05:01, September 29, 2009 (UTC)

Requests for Adminship

I would like to alert everyone that we have 3 currently active Requests for adminship. Everybody is invite to voice their opinion and contribute to the discussion on whether we want these esteemed editors to be given the powers and duties of adminship.

The fact that I have nominated two of them should not be seen as a foregone conclusion. Back in June, I was apprehensive of the summer holidays and feared we might need more admins, and these two (plus Wizardboy, who seems to have turned inactive now, alas) would have been my candidates even then. I procrastinated the nominations, and as it turns out we got along fine without them being admins, which of course raises doubt on whether we need them to take over that duty now. However, once Felix decided to nominate Rose, I decided to bring Jon and El Nazgir to your attention as well.

As the people who have witnessed the past RfAs know, running for admin is not a popularity contest. We are looking for people who can use the admin abilities (which, if it comes down to the nitty gritty, encompass only page deletion, page protection, user blocking, and the editing of interface pages) in a way that this wiki needs; convincing a Bureaucrat of this is what the RfA aims to achieve. Since Entropy has stepped back from most Bureaucrat duties, you need to convince me. ;)

In that light, I ask you to consider "my" two nominations to be personal, non-bureaucratic statements; while I am apt to consider these editors to be able to fulfil the task, based on my knowledge of them, I can be convinced otherwise if you are able to demonstrate to me they aren't; and I will be looking to see whether the community (and not just myself) wants them as admins, and whether we actually need them to be that.

Please help me make good decisions by contributing on these three Requests. --◄mendel► 11:57, October 7, 2009 (UTC)

Wikia bothers me for this?!

Several couples have made their way in the pairing pantheon of history – Ying and Yang, Batman and Robin, Kanye West and Taylor Swift's microphone ... we would like to introduce you to the newest member of that esteemed list – Wikia and MagCloud.

MagCloud enables you to simply transform your favorite pages on any Wikia wiki into your own stylized magazine. You can even publish your own subscription based magazines, all with just a couple clicks of a button. Just pick the pages you want to print, and MagCloud will take care of the rest, from printing and mailing to managing your subscriptions.

Go on, give ‘er a try love!

This message will expire on 17:18, October 29, 2009.

Seriously. 07:08, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I could have been worse. They could have chosen Samson/Delilah, Romeo/Juliet, Mata Hari/MacLeod (note the similarity in name to the husband of aka Margaretha Zelle). At least they chose pairings that had some productive and lasting relationships.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:34, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Bonnie and Clyde? >.> Nwash 07:45, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Now wait a second here, you miss the real point. Our licence specifically requires that nobody sells the content. MagCloud's business model is selling the content (they'll make a profit out of this transaction). Thus, this can not be available on GuildWiki as, by design it breaks the non commercial clause of the license RandomTime 08:14, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

The whole "you have new messages" bit when you don't actually have new messages is obnoxious. If they want to post announcements, they should post them in some other way. Quizzical 06:27, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I dunno. (1) I prefer that they place system outage announcements some place where it's impossible to miss them. (2) It's still a "message," even though everyone has the same one.

I only object to their inability to distinguish between System messages (e.g. warning of planned outages), feature changes (e.g. changes to the Widget™), new features (e.g. adding the blogs), and advertisements (MagCloud). I have no problem with the first and I'm willing to put up with the other two. I am constantly bewildered at the number of companies that cannot understand that only some people want to be told of new services that will cost them extra. (To be fair to corporate America, that percentage is fairly high.)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 08:09, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

You people sicken me

I return! For a little while, anyway.

So today I decided it was time to get caught up on all the skill updates that have happened since the last time I did so, in February. Using my underhanded techniques (as alleged by some rotten crook), I noted all the skills that had undergone changes to their descriptions, then I started double-checking what y'all had here on GuildWiki. I thought I'd find that maybe a couple of them had some minor typos that I'd have to fix, and I'd be done in a couple hours....

Oh how wrong I was. Nearly 6 hours and 56 edits later, my RC-annihilating skills had come back in top form. (Well, maybe not top form, since I have been known to do that many edits in 1 minute... but after that long of a break, that's about the best I could do.)

What has happened to you people since I left? You can't make sure that skill descriptions are accurately updated anymore? Just look at this one - it was edited 4 times after the concise description was messed up, and no one noticed that it was wrong? Without me around to do all the dirty work, yer all just a bunch o' slackers! Gah! >:O

Aww, you guys know I'm just joking with y'all... right? Right? C'mon guys, put down the pitchforks... Uh... guys? >.> <.< *flees* —Dr Ishmael 05:53, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, I haven't played Guild Wars in about two months now. A lot of us are spending our time on Dungeons and Dragons Online. 06:02, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Although I still play very rarely and actually keep up with the updates, I am no longer willing to do all the article maintenance myself, since I have both other games and other obligations which place constraints on my time. (And other wikis. *cough*) I sort of just trust that other people will keep the articles in vaguely accurate shape. :\ (T/C) 21:04, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Concise descriptions? Who ever sees the concise descriptions in the game? They seem to be primarily an attempt at making the descriptions more awkward to read without actually making them shorter. Quizzical 14:05, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Full page ad on the main page?

full page ad

I hope this isn't intentional. Because if it is, then the main page now consists of enormous advertisements at the top, with no content whatsoever appearing on the screen until a user scrolls down. And that's while logged in, which theoretically disables most of the advertisements. This is the sort of thing that makes one think, "the page didn't load" and reload it. I did reload it several times, and didn't even get a different advertisement. And when doing that several times doesn't work, it makes one think, "the wiki is down". Quizzical 14:15, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

That's horrible, this needs to be sorted out. RandomTime 15:11, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Is this the sort of thing that should be posted on the Wikia staff noticeboard? Or does Wikia need to be contacted in some other manner? Quizzical 18:08, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

The quickest way to contact Wikia staff is via Special:Contact. I assume they thought our wiki had main page ads like the others, using the main page column tags, and it doesn't. --◄mendel► 18:23, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Are you saying I should contact them, then? Does no one else see the ad pushing the entire page down by a full screen? Quizzical 18:41, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I don't see it, but I get German ads. And yes, it is not caused by us, but by Wikia, so they're the ones to contact. I wouldn't expect a response before Monday. --◄mendel► 19:23, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't happen in MonobookFTW mode, but Monaco view has them pretty bad. RoseOfKali 23:08, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Gah, I'm dense. Thank you. I made a column like it says in Help:Main page column tags, but it really only works well on wide screens. We need to either get Wikia to stop displaying this ad (where is the assurance we got when we moved that Wikia wouldn't add more ads to the Wiki?), or rearrange the main page. --◄mendel► 01:53, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

full page ad

Well, they made it worse. After several hours of the main page appearing completely blank (not even the ads showing or the ability to scroll down), here's what it looks like right now at 1024x768. Before, one could hit page down and have a functional main page. No such luck now. I suspect that it looks fine with a shortscreen monitor (marketed as "widescreen"), but at 1280x1024 or less, it looks awful. Quizzical 05:51, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Also, it looked this way before your recent edit of the main page, so that isn't the difference. I couldn't post this earlier because the main page wouldn't load at all for several hours. Quizzical 05:53, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't view most of the pages for about 2 hrs - tried Firefox (many plug-ins, disabled plug-ins, modified plug-ins) and IE (no plug-ins). Sometimes I could reach main page, but could only navigate 1-2 pages away. Never was able to get to any talk pages. Same thing happened at PvX and another wikia. The only thing that loaded was a google-ad script (urchin.js); no other code was present when I viewed source.

I don't know what it means, except that nothing that anyone did here was gonna be enuf to fix what ever wikia did. Sigh.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:06, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

The central wikia servers lost connectivity for over 3 hours. All you still got were the caches. --◄mendel► 06:40, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Even with forcing a refresh. The page still is viewed "Squished" as in the screenshot above. The right side advertisement is horribly placed.98.167.219.46 14:24, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Even with AdBlock Plus and Monobook, the right column is still there (just a big white empty space), it doesn't collapse. This is indeed horrible. —Dr Ishmael 14:32, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

KyleH turned the ad off for us. Could somebody with more time dig into the Wikia move pages? I think we got a message by Mr Wales himself that Wikai wouldn't place more ads on our wiki than we already have; which, apparently, they've had to go back on in various ways, but I hope we can at least use it to keep our mainpage clear.

The alternative is redesigning it such that there's a right column that can move up or down depending on the vertical size of the ad that sits atop it. The other Wikia wikis had to do this a year ago after the move to Monaco. Or we can just put up a note in the center that says, "click here for real homepage" (and while we're at it, advertise the quick access links, the community portal, and maybe put the nick info up. You know, like a "mobile" version of our present page.) ;) --◄mendel► 18:32, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

From GuildWiki:Wikia Move

As Gil Penchina has said, but worth repeating from me: this wiki has had advertising for a long time, and our intention is to reduce the amount of advertising, not increase it', for sure. This wiki has more advertising on it than is typical for wikia. We want to offer you some new features and skins, but that's never mandatory. And as everyone knows from my work, the one thing that I think I do really well, and that Wikia does really well, is respect communities and work with people.

Of course the content is under a CC license, and will remain so the same as ever. The NC license does not mean that a wiki can't have advertising on it... any more than people uploading CC NC photos to flickr means flickr can't run ads. It means that no one can package up a book from the content and sell it, and that we can't charge people for access to the site. No problem there. In any event, our intention is to reduce the commercialism of the site, not increase it.

Highlighted the gems, very interesting, can we get rid of monaco then? --RandomTime 18:51, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

full page ad

At work, I use a 1920x1200 monitor, so I checked to see what GuildWiki looked like logged out. You can see the monstrosity to the right. Apparently going to a wider screen didn't help the way I thought it would. It's fixed now, though.

I'm not fundamentally against ads. I realize that hosting servers costs money, and Wikia needs to make money. I don't block the ads, and even occasionally click on one, to help them out. I'm only against ads that are excessively intrusive, such as the pictures I've posted in this section. Quizzical 22:57, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Heya. I just wanted to note that this was a mistake--that ad should not have appeared on GuildWiki; however it is possible that there may be some campaigns in the future which will require a box-ad in the upper-right corner. To accomodate that ad without breaking the unique layout of homepages, most wikis have adapted their homepages to use Main page column tags. To prevent problems in the future, it would probably be a good idea to modify the homepage to use these column tags. If you would like, I would be happy to draft one up and submit for your approval--let me know if you'd like me to. Thanks! --KyleH (talk) 23:01, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Well, at the very least, at LEAST they are ads for a decent-looking game that is vaguely interesting to people here (fantasy RPG) rather than some stupid half-naked dating site shit --Gimmethegepgun 23:03, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Problem with accessing "Most recent changes"

problem accessing most recent changes

I hope this is the right place to ask this,well,I have a problem with the "Most recent changes" appearing on the left side of the wiki, from some recent update, they have slightly changed appearance and from then I can't access the links to the recent edited pages,it just shows them as "image" and nothing happens when I click on any of them, I often used them so I would appreciate if anyone could help me fix this.I use Opera for browsing and they always worked fine for me so far,I tried using different browser (Chrome) and the links worked so it may be some problem with preferences or something in Opera,I really can't use any other Internet browser because Opera is the only one that can handle my tabs(I have about 50 opened at once usually) so if anyone who had this problem or know how to fix it would help me I would be really happy.By the way I already tried using different computer and clearing Cache(neither had any effect).I also added a screenshot so you know what am I talking about..Thanks in advance ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 09:42, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Try clicking either "Recent changes" in the box above the one you posted, or "edited articles" in the yellow box to the right of the one you posted. Those both work for me in Opera 10.01. Quizzical 15:10, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

The widget link to Latest Activity → More now leads to My Home instead of to Recent Changes (the old behavior). As Quizzical says, there is a perma-link to recent changes above all the widgets, and just below Upload a New Image. Alternatively, grab this link and move it to your home page or talk, so you always have fairly quick access.

If you want to get really sneaky, you can add a navigation drop over with your favorite links (so that they are always available to you from every page). You can duplicate my sidebar for Monaco and swap out the section called, TEF with an EAGLEMUT set of links useful to you.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:26, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

If I recall that correctly, you can improve on that by transcluding the central sidebar onto yours and then adding your personal links to that; that way, you also get the benefits of any improvements we make centrally. --◄mendel► 07:34, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Awesome idea. (I've been removing the links I don't use in my version, so I'll also have to figure out how to have best of both worlds.)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:38, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

Images overlapping my latest activity

Thanks for the suggestions guys,the Special:RecentChanges still works for me,I just liked the "Latest Activity" because I could see the most recent changes from every page I was viewing, without the need to come to Special:RecentChanges page every time I want to see/click on them.I did some more researching and now I know more exactly what is the problem; I can't click on the links because they are fully overlapped by the image (http://images.wikia.com/common/releases_200911.1/skins/monobook/blank.gif), when I stop loading a page I can even see the image (screenshot on the right),well, but I still don't know how to fix this(or if I even can),I tried to turn images off and some other things in preferences but it didn't do anything,I also tried to look on the page code (tho I don't understand it much) and the only difference from the other images I could see was it doesn't have an ID (probably doesn't matter) and the only solution I found was removing the image (not good solution).Another interesting thing is, I also see that image overlapping a few other links(Create a new article. for example),however on these, the link is click-able even "through" the image (don't ask me why).

So,all in all,it seems like my Opera got some problem with the image coding in the Latest Activity and I don't know if we can even do anything about that :( .

And to don't forget thank you very much for pointing the Monaco-sidebar ,it's really nice,I started using it immediately.I just wish I could edit the Latest Activity sidebar just as the Monaco-sidebar so I could remove the bugged images.

Thanks for your help and if there is a way around this I would love to know it! :)

If not,well I'll just have to go on the RC page itself every time,it will slow my browsing a bit but I'll deal with it .. ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 08:46, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

There is a real "Recent Changes" widget availabel from your widget dashboard that you can place on the sidebar, does that work better? --◄mendel► 09:57, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Ah,thanks! I never knew there are so many widgets available on the dashboard (I overlooked them), I'll just use it instead of the Latest Activity bugged thing.Problem solved. :)

***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 10:28, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Excellent troubleshooting Sir Eaglemut! If Opera has any plug-ins similar to AdBlock Plus for Firefox, you can selectively block images that cause you trouble. (Although it's called "AdBlock," it can be used instead as "AnnoyingImageBlock;" for example, I use it on some sites to filter out background images which (a) increase loading time and/or (b) make it hard on my eyes.) If Opera doesn't have anything like that, then you might still have a couple of options. (And btw: wikia keeps adjusting the widgets, so it's useful to go through them from time to time.)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:16, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

If it doesn't have adblock, you could do the nerdy alternative and block the domain on your hosts file (redirect say, doubleclick.net to 127.0.0.1 - assuming you don't have a server running on localhost, then it will automatically 404 anything from doubleclick, and then continue to load other stuff) RandomTime 09:01, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

I have never used any adblock but after typing "adblock for opera" in Google I found in 5 secs that Opera has adblock automatically installed and after another 5 secs I just added the URL of the bugged image and now it is finally working as it should! Thank you very much,now all the links are just fine and not all overlapped by that image thing and it took me just a mere 10 seconds..Thank you all for your great help,I really wouldn't fix this without you :) ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 11:15, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Wintersday decorations and the like

I've created GuildWiki:Wintersday 2009 for discussion of events and decorations, any ideas/input would be most welcome RandomTime 22:02, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

PvP Henchmen?

GuildWiki:New henchmen project
We seem to be missing all of the new henchmen (and perhaps the updated skillbars for the PvE dudes). It's probably also time to overhaul the current article; at the very least, it needs a section for PvP. <Hint!>This seems like an awesome opportunity for veterans to push GWiki style in a new direction and for new contributors to start an article or three (lots of new henchies!).</Hint!>   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:25, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks to the efforts of Dr Ishamael (and a cast of several), this project is nearly complete. Please take a gander (link above).   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 12:11, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Navbox style

With the addition of some new nav boxes, the question of look has come up. Essentially, the questions are: Template:ProfessionsNavBox vs Template:Unique items nav box (single line vs multi line) and whether to use the ◊ (loz) symbol as a divider. --JonTheMon 22:42, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

I prefer multi-line, and dot vs the diamond. RoseOfKali 23:38, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

I'll restate my opinion on the symbols, then: the diamond/lozenge isn't visually significant enough for the function it's being used for there. Either use something wider/more solid or just use the dot.

As for 1 or 2 line, I can see advantages both ways. 1 line is more compact, while 2 lines are a little easier for the eye to scan over. Personally, I don't really see a need to distinguish the core/non-core professions in these navboxes, though, so my vote's for the single-line format. —Dr Ishmael 01:31, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I guess I'd rather have visually easy, rather than compact (since it's purpose is to aid navigation).

If we do single-line, could we at least list things in alpha-order instead of arbitrary ANet order? (That's another reason I prefer the two-line, distinguish-campaign style — despite the 6000 times I've reviewed the list, I can still haven't gotten used to Warrior being first and Assassin 6th.)   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:40, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Wintersday logo

I faintly remember Gwiki having a candy cane weapon version of the logo last year (or the year before that, dunno). Anyone know where it is/how to put it back up?--El_Nazgir 10:07, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Heh, mendel probably does, I'll have a look round RandomTime 10:15, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Tharrr she blows! (Copied Mendel's code from last year, crtl + F5 to see it) RandomTime 10:20, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Since I have no idea how you did it, I can't undo it myself, but wintersday has been over now for some time :P --El_Nazgir 21:47, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Icon was reset a while ago, too :P Ctrl-f5 --- -- (contribs) (talk) 22:24, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Oh. Strange, I even reinstalled Opera and cleared it's cache and stuff, and I think it was after wintersday. Also, I showed my brother something funny (entrea's propaganda userboxes, if you really must know), and it showed as the wintersday icon too...--El_Nazgir 16:46, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

I'm still seeing the logo as well, and I've been refreshing the page and using ctrl-f5 and it's still there. I've even tried switching my skin and loging out to see if that works, but it doesn't. I'm using Monaco Sapphire and Internet Explorer. Chibi Moon Shadow 17:37, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Heh, yeah, I was wondering what was going on with this. Being a monobook user, I couldn't figure out why anyone would still be seeing the logo. But, yep, the Wintersday logo is still being used for the Monaco themes. I just took a look at Monaco view to verify it, and since it's been a long time since I viewed any pages in Monaco, I sincerely doubt my cache would be the culprit. Nwash 17:42, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

It is not being used for my custom Monaco. 17:56, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

#wiki_logo { background-image:url(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/gw/images/0/09/Gwwintersday.png) !important; }

This line is at the bottom of MediaWiki:Monaco.css. It seems likely this is culprit. Nwash 18:04, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Disabled. —Dr Ishmael 18:07, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Problem loading images

Is anyone else have problems loading graphics here on guild wiki? Some of the graphics will load just fine and some of the rest take a long time to load and still others just plain don't load. This has been happening for about 2 or 3 weeks now... or maybe it's been longer. It usually says loading data from google-analytics.com in the bar at the bottom of the browser when it stops loading images.Varuuth 15:22, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia have had too many occurrences of pages hanging on images loading, but normally these go away after an hour, a day at the most. 2-3 days is longer than I've ever seen it. Try blocking google-analytics.com in your hosts file RandomTime 22:37, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

I would block it, but I also have the same problem with images3.wikia.nocookie.net ,I allow cookies. well not cookies from 3rd party websites. but .. basically i allow cookies. just wish someone could find this problem and fix it. Varuuth 04:23, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

You can submit bug reports to Wikia through Special:Contact. There's not really anything we can do about it here. —Dr Ishmael 04:30, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

New user javascriptlet: RecentChanges hideUser

I know there's at least a few people who've been interested in this for a while, so I'm making a post here that hopefully everyone will see. I've completed a new scriptlet that will allow you to hide edits by a specific user on Special:RecentChanges. I'm going to post the code and more details at Forum:Coding/Javascript. —Dr Ishmael 04:54, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks <3 Finally I can filter you out ;) --- -- (contribs) (talk) 12:43, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

That's a pretty big block of code. Isn't there some way to...addScript( 'thing.js' );  ? (T/C) 01:52, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Done, see new usage instructions. It was even bigger, before I discovered some nice JS shortcuts like .insertRow and .insertCell for easy table manipulation (JS isn't one of my primary programming languages). —Dr Ishmael 02:34, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Wikia is using the jQuery framework to make web programming easier. Many useful scripts are stored on w:c:dev, you may consider uploading yours there, to, unless you value the "NC" in our license. Mmh, should I add this info to Forum:Coding? ;-P --◄mendel► 11:45, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Breaking News Hot Off the Wikia Press

Hi everyone,

In order to perform scheduled maintenance, we will be setting all Wikia sites to read-only mode for approximately 30 minutes starting at 8 AM UTC (12:00 AM PST). Wikia sites should remain accessible; however, you will not be able to make any new contributions.

Thank you for your patience, The Wikia Community and Technical Teams

Important stuff right? 04:47, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Skill histories

I know the idea of retaining skill histories has been debated at various points in this wiki's history, usually ending with the conclusion that it would be impossible, or at best highly impractical. Well, I'm here today to tell you that it is possible, indeed, I currently have open on my other monitor a spreadsheet detailing the history of every skill that has ever been updated. It took nearly 2 weeks of trudging through all the recorded game updates, but that part of the task is complete.

skip the next two paragraphs if you don't care to read the details of my data collection process

I say complete; however, there was a great deal of guess work and fudging involved, especially for anything before the release of Factions. Multiple updates during that time included notes of the sort, "Updated various skill descriptions." Most of those changes were targeted to a specific phrasing used in many skill descriptions; for example, one such update removed "than normal" from skills that modified movement/attack/etc. speeds. Other updates of this sort were not documented with a note, like when they removed the quotes around "block[ed]," or when they went and capitalized every instance of "Enchant[ment/ed]" and "Hex[ed]," or when they later reverted that change. Most minor text changes I ignored, rolling them into either a previous or subsequent update, since they did not actually affect the skill's functionality. However, where an update included a note specifically for "fixing a text bug" or "updating description to better describe functionality" for a specific skill, I did include that, with a note that it was only a text change.

I omitted updates that did not produce any "visible" effects to the skill stats, including updates to add or remove aftercast delays; if anyone feels that those updates are important enough to note, it shouldn't be hard to search the updates for them. I cross-checked all updates against the skill template and article histories to verify the actual wording of the descriptions. (If anyone was wondering why I've been randomly editing skill templates and game update pages recently, that would be why.) I included "hidden" updates so far as they were recorded in the GuildWiki Notes or the template/article edit summaries. Finally, since concise descriptions were introduced after all skills had already had their traditional descriptions established, I recorded all changes in terms of the full description only, omitting the concise descriptions. [EDIT] I also ignored any changes, documented or not, that the skills may have undergone before their associated campaign/expansion was released.

The next step is to figure out how to present this information. I have posted a mock-up of one possibility over on my sandbox, with general formatting copied from a QR template, wrapped in a collapsible div so that readers who aren't interested in it won't be distracted by it. I left out explicit listings of attribute, skill type, or elite status, since most skills have never undergone a change in those areas: out of 974 skills that have experienced updates, only 41 have undergone a skill type change, only 17 have undergone an attribute change, and only 1 has undergone a change of leetness (Lightbringer Signet).

Any and all suggestions are welcome. I plan on writing a script to automatically transform the data from the spreadsheet into whatever wiki format is decided upon. —Dr Ishmael 21:54, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

My question is where would this info be? Just on each page? On a sub page? On a separate page with multiple histories, grouped by attribute/profession/whatever? --JonTheMon 22:03, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

On the skill pages - that's why I included the collapsible div, so that people who are interested in the histories don't have to make any extra clicks to find them, while people who aren't interested in them won't be overly distracted. It could be stored as a subpage or template, and we could use DPL to create summary pages. —Dr Ishmael 22:22, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Good work! The template makes the code small enough that we could easily put it on the skill page itself, which makes it very accessible for updates (though using a subpage would be ok, too). I suggest that we do display the date in a different format (storing it in ISO format works well, as the Zaishen Quest pages show; if we're to be consistent, yours should acquire dashes). If you have't already, a "note" parameter to the template would also come in handy; other wikis routinely annotate their updates, and it makes sense to provide the option when we'll be adding to these histories manually (a note could be a link to a discussion etc.). Should the update date be linked to the update article? --◄mendel► 01:17, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I knew that wouldn't be a good final date format, but didn't feel like doing anything with it yet. YYYYMMDD is just what we use all the time at work (I got rehired by the same company), the lack of punctuation making it very easy to type. I can include a date reformat in the spreadsheet-to-wiki script. And linking to the update was one of my "next steps".

It already has a 'notes' paramter, that I was intending to use for indicating attribute/type changes (already modeled on my sandbox) or text-only changes. What other sort of 'notes' are you thinking of? —Dr Ishmael 02:26, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I think the skill update should be sorted with the most recent version at the top rather than the original. 03:46, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

That was my original idea... I truly don't know why I sandboxed them the other way. >.> —Dr Ishmael 04:27, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Well, everything I thought of while checking them out has already been said. I like it.--El_Nazgir 08:15, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Felix (and you), that was my thought as well, but I forgot to write that down. :) I didn't go as far as to look at your template; the notes parameter is fine. YYYYMMDD does work (e.g. Feb 13, 2010), but while it may be easier to type, I find YYYY-MM-DD easier to read. ;) Also in its favor: already in use for Zquest dates, ISO standard. Good to see we're thinking in the same direction! --◄mendel► 10:31, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

semi-tl;dr'ed here: Aftercast delays are some of the more important changes if you ask me. Acd is the sole reason Sins aren't better than Warriors nowadays in terms of spiking power. DPS-wise, Sins were always worse. --- -- (contribs) (talk) 12:42, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I like this. Interesting to look at the "evolution of the skill," so to speak. And as Viper said, aftercast delay should be listed in these. RoseOfKali 13:25, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

There were actually only three updates that modified aftercast: Game updates/20080306 removed it from 10 elementalist skills and 2 monk skills; Game updates/20080710 added it to 4 assassin skills; and Game updates/20100128 added it to 1 ele skill and 6 ranger skills. And since you both asked, I went ahead and added notes about those to my spreadsheet. If it was ever changed on any other skills, it was undocumented or happened pre-release. —Dr Ishmael 05:27, February 14, 2010 (UTC)